Care home contract

[Toddleo]

Folks, I have PM'd Dottyd as I recall her starting a thread in relation to signing a contract on a loved one's behalf.

Mum has been admitted today into a nursing home, so far so good.
This is a funded nursing home place through CHC fast track funding for end of life care.

Exactly as was the case in the Dottyd thread, the contract I have been asked to sign says that as mum's nominated representative (I do not have POA or deputyship) "I am personally liable for all payments under this agreement"

Now obviously, in this case the Nursing home and the CCG have the contract for mum's care, i.e the CCG are paying the weekly fees, and not mum or her family. There is NO WAY I am prepared to sign an agreement which makes me personally liable for any monies....The cheek of it.

My question (in the absence so far of the oracle that is Dottyd) is what do I do now.....and are there any other CHC funded folks with similar experience who can offer advice?

 

[Kevinl]

Here's a link to the thread
K
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?95716-Signing-a-contract-on-mums-behalf

 

[Toddleo]

Thankyou Kevin.

 

[Toddleo]

Selfishly "bumping this up" the recently posted responses in the hope of advice ....

 

[LadyA]

From what I remember of the previous thread (I haven't re-read it), I think the advice was - Do not sign the contract, but refer it to - is it the LA that pays the fees? Or am I thinking of the thread that was dealing with top-ups?

 

[Toddleo]

yes, LadyA you're quite right, The original query was not related to top ups. I was hoping that Dottyd might be able to chip in and let us know what the actual outcome was at the end of her "battles" with that care home.

I have their agreement in front of me which I am required to sign and it states:

"....If I do not have legal authority, I am PERSONALLY liable for all payments under this agreement"

now, who in their right mind would sign that? I am sure Dottyd did not in the end, but would appreciate her clarification all the same. Her thread had some useful pointers which I have taken on board, and I have also emailed my Clinical commissioning group who are funding mums stay under CHC funding.

Any ones experiences would be welcomed.

 

[Saffie]

From what I remember of the previous thread (I haven't re-read it), I think the advice was - Do not sign the contract, but refer it to - is it the LA that pays the fees? Or am I thinking of the thread that was dealing with top-ups?

No, Lady A, the NHS pays for CHC funding not the LA.
I think this might be better addressed more generally as it is clear which group of homes is being referred to, despite the *s and it may be sailing a bit close to the T&Cs though as it hasn't been picked up by the mods, perhaps not. Even so, it is a bit specific whereas opening it up to all homes with similar contracts related to CHC funding might bring more responses.

 

[Toddleo]

Wise words Saffie, the mods have made some minor thread adjustments now.

Still waiting on advice by the way, i have phoned CAB, The relatives and residents association, the competitions and marketing authority so far.... no joy. Looks like I may have to see a solicitor - not ideal.

I will try Ageuk and independent age too, I think the issue is that it involves contract law..
Where's Dottyd? Lol

 

[jaymor]

I can only repeat what I said in Dottyd's thread, my husband received CHC for the four years he was in a nursing home. I signed nothing, I did not know what the CCG were paying for his care, though I knew what their rates were. The contract was between CCG and the nursing home. The nursing home was one belonging to a large company with quite a few homes.

I assumed that should CHC be removed then I would have to enter into a contract with the nursing home to pay his fees but not before the question of paying his fees ourselves arose.

 

[Kevinl]

I've never signed the contract and six months later nothing has happened, I returned it and asked them to send it to the LA/NHS as it's none of my business.
I know I'm not the only one there that's refused to sign a contract and nothing has happened so far, if they don't like it they can take it up with the funding authority and sort themselves out.
K

 

[Toddleo]

So they never asked you to sign anything Jaymor?

This care home have asked for me to sign the residents agreement and give it back by return agreeing to be liable for all payments under the agreement.

Their covering letter even says in the event that I do not send them a signed copy, the terms will nonetheless apply as long as mum is resident with them!! The cheek of it.

 

[KingB]

When I have signed contracts with care home / nursing home I have amended any wording I was not happy with (from memory I think there were clauses about me being personally liable & I just deleted them). Both homes were happy with that (one was part of a large chain & the other privately owned).

 

[Toddleo]

You just crossed it out KingB? and they did not create a fuss?

 

[jugglingmum]

Their covering letter even says in the event that I do not send them a signed copy, the terms will nonetheless apply as long as mum is resident with them!!

This is a relatively standard legal term in some instances, eg I work for a firm of accountants and we can't start work until an engagement letter is signed, but when an engagement letter needs updating we include a similar term so we can continue working. There is case law which makes this term make the contract valid I understand.

Therefore you need to reject the contract rather than do nothing I think.

 

[jaymor]

So they never asked you to sign anything Jaymor?

This care home have asked for me to sign the residents agreement and give it back by return agreeing to be liable for all payments under the agreement.

Their covering letter even says in the event that I do not send them a signed copy, the terms will nonetheless apply as long as mum is resident with them!! The cheek of it.

The only things I signed were to say he could be taken out by carers, he could have his photograph taken and they could take the fees for the chiropodist out of his funds he held there. No one at any time mentioned a contract to me.

My husband received CHC funding up to the day he died. I would only have signed a contract if the funding had been weithdrawn and I was liable for the fees.

 

[Toddleo]

My husband received CHC funding up to the day he died. I would only have signed a contract if the funding had been weithdrawn and I was liable for the fees.

Yes that makes sense Jaymor. I struggle to get my head around the reasoning behind the wording in this contract. I have now spoken to a solicitor, and he says that I should strike out the offending sentence and initial it, and hand the agreement in with a covering letter detailing why I have made the amendment.

I also spoke to the unit secretary at the home who gave the speech about how the unthinkable NEVER happens, and that the CHC funding aspect always goes smoothly and they never need to claim monies from the Nominated individual (yes, in an ideal world perhaps!) Am not feeling trustworthy! always read the small print folks.

Thanks for all the replies, and I will still be interested to see what Dottyd has to say on the subject.