Financial contributions when parent moves in with child

[Murper1]

This is the first time I've posted on here. But I've already learnt a lot from reading other peoples' posts and felt less alone dealing with my mum and her dementia - so thank you all!

I am interested in the experiences of other people who have moved their parent in to live with them. I have no regrets moving mum in despite so many people warning me against it; I love it! But there are costs involved. Does anyone get a contribution from your parent to cover their household and other bills? Is there legislation or official regulations related to this? What amounts eg per month do you think would be considered reasonable?

 

[Beetroot]

First of all, you need to get lasting powers of attorney in place if your mother is capable of understanding what she's signing (that's if you haven't already done so). If not, go for the more onerous deputyship.

My mum lives with me in my house. She pays half of food bills, petrol, gas, electric and water, her own clothes and speficific toiletries. She also pays for her twice a week carers, day club, chiropodist etc. If she's been away or has had one of her don't want to eat much weeks, I reduce her share of the food bill to reflect that and never put alcoholic drinks on there. I pay the phone bill and all other car running expenses in their entirity. Council tax is not payable for her as she has mental impairment, or for me as I'm her carer and not a spouse or under 18 or something else I can't remember so I pay what's left i.e. 50% I also pay all maintenance on the house and for capital type expenditure, like a new tv, washing machine, fridge etc. She tells me she should pay towards things like that as she has use of them, but I'm not comfortable with that, so I say thanks Mum and don't bill it - she is beyond checking things like that and forgets anyway. She paid for the stairlift and rails round the place that were put in specifically for her (and I find a nuisance, frankly) .

I use one credit card for most joint expenditure and split the bill monthly. I also keep a notebook in the kitchen and jot down cash expenditure and split that (don't always botrher for small amounts tho'). Once I've worked out her "monthly bill", I do a transfer from her bank account to mine. Where something is specifically for her, I pay for it out of her bank account.

It all sounds a bit complicated, but a socliitor from whom I sought advice said this was all fine. Once the system is working, it's a pain, but easy enough to keep going. I do keep full records and all receipts. Solicitor said Mum e could also pay towards things like the white goods/tv etc as she had use of them. Given they will remain here if she goes into a home or when she dies, I felt it would save messing about with famliy if they choose to make remarks like well Mum paid towards this that and the other and you've still got them.

 

[Beate]

A few things to help with bills:
Attendance Allowance for Mum
Council Tax exemption due to severe mental impairment
I believe as you're not a spouse you can get one too, so that would reduce that bill by half.

As others have said, LPA is crucial.

I have no qualms about charging my OH half of household bills (except CT) and all his extra expenses like clothes, day care and inco pads.

A word to the wise - even though you're loving it now, caring for someone is rarely plain sailing and it does never hurt to find out what support can be given to you, ie day care, sitters, respite etc.

 

[mancmum]

How much should it cost?

I for one would be pleased if there was some widely accepted formula on what to do in this situation.

To begin with it was agreed by all family that all but 10.00 of pension would be transferred to my account to cover costs.

However that meant that my father lived liked a basic level state pensioner while he had been well off and had good quality food etc etc.

I did the shopping for mother in law who was a basic level state pensioner and the difference between what she had was significantly to what I provided for my father.

So it has been increased to 7,500. This would not even cover rent for a two bedroom property in our area. in our case this also covers access to a good quality car for trips out, etc. He enjoys visiting the sea side and this is an 80 mile round trip.

The government say that the 'hotel' costs for a resident of a care home are 12,000
and to be honest I would say that this figure should be widely used.

I draw his attendance allowance each week and this is spent on activities for him and for the costs of any accompanying carer be it me or another person. It also covers just his costs if the activity is one that he would not necessarily do otherwise. I keep records of how this is spent on a downloadable app on my mobile phone. I do not keep every receipt. People have differed on here on saying what records you shoudl keep for the spending of attendance allowance. The records can be exported from mobile phone to computer. I found that I was financing casual costs myself and this app has been excellent.

All care costs are paid from father's account.

Things that were not really thought about when he first moved in was ..what if we want to downsize when the children move out and what if we want to upsize to allow him and maybe a carer to be accommodated and still give us some private space.

Also there was no consideration of the fact that I gave up my job to look after him, even though he said he did not want to cost us anything by moving in

He did pay the full costs of converting a downstairs toilet to a toilet wetroom.

The next decision will be what do we do about the car. My husband and I would probably not keep a car once he retires (and the company car goes back). but it is useful for father (and for his MIL). Am considering asking court of protection what to do in that circumstance. Father always had a car and would still like one now. He often goes out of front door and looks for car as we head off to the bus stop. I like the bus because its social contact for him but now I worry about him falling on it.

It would be an awful lot easier if people just said its 12,000.

 

[Marnie63]

I do similar to how others have described (mum living with me in my home). Before dementia, mum and I used to split most of the household bills, but I would pay all car costs, phone/internet/mobile and she would pay for all food (that was her choice). So now I keep to the same. When I had a bathroom converted so that we could bathe her using the rising bath chair, I paid, but then transferred half of the cost from one of her accounts to mine (I do have both LPAs). I will continue to do as we did before and mum is still kind of able to have a bit of a say in this (like the bathroom - she said take it all out of my money, but I only took half). I am clinging on by my fingernails to a part time job, only a few hours a week (break and sanity for me, etc.), but when I had no job for a year I occasionally transferred £500 from mum's account into mine otherwise my current account funds would have completely run out for day to day living costs! Now that I'm back working I have stopped doing that.

I haven't sought any advice on this, nor do I know what the legal/formal position is, but it seems fair to me, and I will continue. I have to admit when I do the food shopping (mum is still paying for this) I do include a bottle of wine or two, but as I don't drink much, I think that's fine to do!! If there are replacements/repairs to household items then I pay half and mum pays half, but sometimes for smaller repairs I pay myself.

Mum does get upper level Attendance Allowance, so with that, plus her pension, she has a larger monthly income than me. I wouldn't want to build up excessive funds in her account, only for her to have to pay large amounts towards care one day, if that is the path we have to take. Having said that, I don't do any sly accounting to reduce her funds - it's all fair and square!

 

[Fullticket]

Financial contributions

My mum lives we me (has done for 4 years). I have joint POA with my brother so make sure that I keep a spreadsheet of all outgoings. Sight of it has never been requested by him but it is there if there is ever any query. And I think it is important to have something like this for when she has to go into care permanently; I don't want anyone suggesting that I have lived on her money for the last few years. I think I'm fair in what she contributes, i.e. I pay electricity, broadband and telephone but she pays for the heating oil (a biggish bill as I have to keep the house warmer than I would for myself). When we moved here three years ago there was building work needed and she contributed her share, likewise any repairs. When we needed a new washing machine I took this out of her money as the machine is on every day because I need to wash her clothes, bedding with more frequency than I would otherwise. Frankly, there has been no real guidance from anyone so I am just doing what I think is fair. And yes, the odd bottle of wine does make its way into the shopping but as an unpaid carer I think that a third party would have difficulty in objecting. Money-wise, I earn enough from a home based part time job and my pension to keep myself without her contribution so, again, I think I am OK. Mum gets upper level Attendance Allowance and a good pension courtesy of my dad's employers (he died in the 80s) so there is money for her to attend lots of clubs, go into day care a couple of days a week - all of these I have to take and collect her from while juggling work and a life. So again, I charge her the petrol money for this. Additionally, living in the country I have a 4 x 4 but that is not suitable for a 92-year old so I run a separate car for her, which is in my name but she pays for. I don't think anyone can accuse me of frittering her money away on this. Legally, I have no idea where I stand on all of this.

 

[Murper1]

Thanks everyone for writing your situations down. It is a great help to read them. I've also been reading the Financial section of Talking Point. In my case I can't get POA now as Mum is unable to express herself , but I am now a huge advocate for everyone else to get POA sorted out for the sake of their family.

 

[canary]

Thanks everyone for writing your situations down. It is a great help to read them. I've also been reading the Financial section of Talking Point. In my case I can't get POA now as Mum is unable to express herself , but I am now a huge advocate for everyone else to get POA sorted out for the sake of their family.

If you cant get POA then you need to apply for Court of Protection deputyship which will give you similar powers to POA, but it is decided by the court rather than your mum. You will need this as things start to progress.

 

[tryingmybest]

My Mum moved in with me, and I gave up my job to care fulltime for her, nearly 2 years ago after it was discovered she was being emotionally and financially abused by my sister in the short time Mum lived there. After 3 extremely difficult and stressful hearings at the Court of Protection in London, it was agreed my Mum live with me, and the LA appointed as a temporary Financial Deputy to look after her money which they still do, as CoP have not appointed anyone else on a permanent basis to take over!!

I obviously claim Carers Allowance and the Deputy just gives me £80 a week from Mums Attendance Allowance which to be honest hardly covers household bills/food/petrol expenses. Mum is also given a small allowance from her pension each week which I use to pay for her toiletries, clothes and incontinence products, weekly hairdresser costs, chiropodist and the occasional trip out. I provide receipts and full accounts to the Deputy for all expenditure every month. I have recently asked for a little more, (even £20 a week would help) but this has been declined!!

I suppose they give us the bare minimum in order to not eat into any capital Mum has in case the day comes when her condition worsens and I am unable to cope and she would then be self funding should she go into a nursing home. It doesn't help me with the increased food/electric/ heating bills and doesn't seem fair, however I have never regretted Mum coming to live with me, although it is hard at times as I have no help, but I know she has the very best of care and is happy.

 

[marionq]

My Mum moved in with me, and I gave up my job to care fulltime for her, nearly 2 years ago after it was discovered she was being emotionally and financially abused by my sister in the short time Mum lived there. After 3 hearings at CoP it was agreed my Mum live with me and the LA appointed as a temporary Financial Deputy to look after her money which they still do, as CoP have not appointed anyone else on a permanent basis to take over!!

I obviously claim Carers Allowance and the Deputy just gives me £80 a week from Mums Attendance Allowance which to be honest hardly covers household bills/food/petrol expenses. Mum is also given a small allowance from her pension each week which I use to pay for her toiletries, clothes and incontinence products and the occasional trip out. I provide receipts and full accounts to the Deputy for all expenditure. I have asked for a little more, even £20 a week would help but this has been declined.

I suppose they give us the bare minimum in order to not eat into any capital Mum has in case the day comes when her condition worsens and I am unable to cope and she would then be self funding should she go into a nursing home. It doesn't help me with the increased food/electric/ heating bills and doesn't seem fair, however I have never regretted Mum coming to live with me, although it is hard at times as I have no help, but I know she has the very best of care and is happy.

When I was head of department and applying to various bodies for funds I found that using the right form of words (telling them what they wanted to hear) usually got me what I wanted. This greatly irritated other heads. I would suggest that you apply again for an increase but this time talk with one of the bodies who are used to this kind of approach eg CAB or Alz Soc. Get them to make your case. If £20 a week would make your life easier then why should you not have it. Good luck.

 

[Margi29]

My Mum moved in with me, and I gave up my job to care fulltime for her, nearly 2 years ago after it was discovered she was being emotionally and financially abused by my sister in the short time Mum lived there. After 3 extremely difficult and stressful hearings at the Court of Protection in London, it was agreed my Mum live with me, and the LA appointed as a temporary Financial Deputy to look after her money which they still do, as CoP have not appointed anyone else on a permanent basis to take over!!

I obviously claim Carers Allowance and the Deputy just gives me £80 a week from Mums Attendance Allowance which to be honest hardly covers household bills/food/petrol expenses. Mum is also given a small allowance from her pension each week which I use to pay for her toiletries, clothes and incontinence products, weekly hairdresser costs, chiropodist and the occasional trip out. I provide receipts and full accounts to the Deputy for all expenditure every month. I have recently asked for a little more, (even £20 a week would help) but this has been declined!!

I suppose they give us the bare minimum in order to not eat into any capital Mum has in case the day comes when her condition worsens and I am unable to cope and she would then be self funding should she go into a nursing home. It doesn't help me with the increased food/electric/ heating bills and doesn't seem fair, however I have never regretted Mum coming to live with me, although it is hard at times as I have no help, but I know she has the very best of care and is happy.

Hi tryingmybest

I find it absolutely unbelievable that the powers that be are declining you an extra £20 a week to help !!! Who do they think they are ??
Apply again, it's your mums money and if it helps her and you to have a more comfortable life then what is their problem??

Sorry for ranting, people like this make my blood boil !!
Best wishes

 

[Pegsdaughter]

So they are only giving you a proportion of her state pension? That cannot be reasonable. if she were in her own home she would have all of it. I agree get help to apply for a reasonable amount to cover the costs associated with her living with you. Sounds like the £80 is to cover food and now t much else.


Sent from my iPad using Talking Point

 

[la lucia]

So they are only giving you a proportion of her state pension? That cannot be reasonable. if she were in her own home she would have all of it. I agree get help to apply for a reasonable amount to cover the costs associated with her living with you. Sounds like the £80 is to cover food and now t much else.


Sent from my iPad using Talking Point

I also agree. This is outrageous because dementia is expensive - heating, incontinence products, special food, daycare, aids etc.,

My mother's expenses are more than her state pension and Attendance Allowance. And that's not counting the 'normal stuff' like insurance, house maintenance etc.,

I'm just about to buy my mother a new digital TV so she can watch NatGeo and other programmes she likes during the day. She's paying for it and she'll pay for the BT TV contract . I don't even watch TV I have a Netflix account which I watch on an iPad in my room (when I get the time) so I pay the broadband and phone bill. Everyone, including the social worker thinks it is a great idea because my mother gets so bored she's liable to get agitated and that's when she forgets her walking frame and falls.

I've actually managed to reduce my mother's household bills since I moved in because I got a better utility deal and installed LED bulbs etc but I couldn't do this if I didn't have the freedom to run things as I see fit.

How the Financial Deputy can justify their position seems flimsy to me because the pwd's quality of life is also important and recognised in law. The law society actually says that insufficient clothing, no TV, etc are evidence of financial abuse if there's funds to provide these things.

I think I would go back to the COP and politely spell out what's needed including an amount for contingencies and ask for their help with this Deputy. . But as Marion says get support from the Alzheimers Society or Age UK to use the right words because it does make a difference. I don't think the COP would expect that £80 a week is sufficient. I think she's certainly entitled to spend her state pension on herself via you. And if that means, for instance, posh fluffy towels to encourage her to shower so be it.....

There's a huge difference between financial abuse and having a decent quality of life relative to income. Quality of life, as far as possible, is really important for a pwd.

 

[Penmon79]

When my M-in-L came to live with us three & a half years ago we agreed a weekly rate and that we would divide the utility bills by three. However, she kept adding to the weekly sum ( She goes through a ritual of handing my husband cash each Monday! Cash that he's been asked to take out of her account mind. He has POA.) no matter how much we protested. So we now only take the flat weekly rate and count the cost of bills in that. It's certainly simple. It doesn't stop her trying to give us more money when she thinks she owes us though; if she insists I take it and slip it back into her purse later.
We have her cat living with us too and he has to have prescription only food which costs a fortune and my husband pays for that and vet bills from her account. That cat is very fortunate that his owner can afford to keep him!!!

 

[Murper1]

I had not thought about being able to have mum's pension paid to me so I use it to pay her bills. With care bills, heating bills and large bills for incontinence products, it is expensive. Will look into it. Although I feel guilty raising the subject of money, I'm glad I did. It occurs to me that foster parents taking in foster children are given budgets and expenses - perhaps something similar could be worked out for families that take in their parents with dementia.