Don't know how to help anymore

[tigerlady]

I think the situation with the SS is appalling! I have copied a piece of Pickles53's post to emphasize it. Please take note of the highlighted words and put them in writing - it seems to trigger action when those phrases are mentioned. It must be in a written letter with copies sent to the other professionals so you can prove that you have informed them. Maybe your MP should be alerted.

You could formally write to SS stating all the concerns you have raised here. Use the words 'vulnerable adult at risk' for whom they have a 'legal duty of care'. Tell them your situation, that you have a new job and will not be able to continue offering the same level of support as you have been doing. You will hold them responsible for anything that happens. Send a copy to your nan's GP so at least he is aware. Pressure sores will not get better without skilled assistance e.g. from a regular district nurse visit. Ask for a referral to the Incontinence service if you haven't already done this.

I sounds as if all the other professionals are trying to help and I cannot understand how the SS are ignoring them - especially when you have POA and the solicitor has confirmed she does not have capacity to make decisions in her best interest. You really cannot go on like this - you will be ill. Maybe get the SS to call when you aren't there so they can see her on her own - see that she is wet and unaware of it. I am shocked at the neglect in the hospital.

Also the fact that she may lose her bungalow the longer she stays with you is also a cause for concern. The rent she is paying on it surely is needed for her living expenses at your house. You could take her back there and tell the SS that you could no longer care for her and action would have to be taken, but I know you love your nan too much to abandon her, and it is criminal that such action should have to be taken to get anything done.

Have you tried ringing AgeUK if you cant get through to the AS? Please let us know how you get on

 

[Bod]

I have tried everything with SS but they are adamant that their assessment is that she has capacity despite the GP and the solicitor that gave me POA saying she doesn't. They are equally adamant that means that as she does not consent to care they "cannot force it on her" they say it would be illegal to do so. They swallow all her lies about what she does for herself and as she chats away with stories (all of which are untrue like that she was a gymnast etc) they feel she is intelligent and engaging and should have a say. I know that this is my sole responsibility and that's what I'm struggling with. I feel really alone in making these huge decisions, and I really don't know what would be the best for her.....

I had this with my father. He could tell a good tale.
I had to be there when ever he had a meeting, and let the cat out of the bag, on many occasions.
It does feel as your letting them down, but it's the only way for their own good.
Capacity, what does her Consultant at the Memory Clinic say? (No Memory clinic, get the GP to refer.)
Contrary to their opinion, GP/ Consultant opinion in medical matters outweighs Social Services!
As others say, you have now entered into "Needs outweigh Wants".
Going by what you say about her and your house, then after a period of settling in, a Care Home would be best.
You do get a big say in where she goes, so visit a few, get a feel of what's "homely" or not!

All said by one whose been there, and got the Tee-shirt.

Bod

 

[claireizz]

Thank you everyone for all your help. In some ways I feel reassured as you've all given recommendations for things I already have in place like POA, memory clinic, incontinence service etc so I suppose I'm some ways I'm doing ok. No one would forgive me I popped her in a home so I think I just need to bite the bullet and pay for more care help. I think I maybe just need a long hot bath and a big hug!!

 

[Jessbow]

If you have POA, nan has presumably been deemed to lack capacity to make her own sensible decisions.

is it for finance or health and welfare?

 

[Pickles53]

Thank you everyone for all your help. In some ways I feel reassured as you've all given recommendations for things I already have in place like POA, memory clinic, incontinence service etc so I suppose I'm some ways I'm doing ok. No one would forgive me I popped her in a home so I think I just need to bite the bullet and pay for more care help. I think I maybe just need a long hot bath and a big hug!!

I'm glad you feel a little better. Please don't be swayed by guilt because you think 'nobody would forgive you' for any decision you make. Poke that guilt monster in the eye with a big stick. Firstly, you have POA so your nan trusted you the most to make the right decisions; secondly, unless they are willing to take on some of the caring responsibilities themselves, nobody else has any right to criticise.

Absolutely get in some more paid care support. Going back to my earlier point, that is what your nan gets attendance allowance for. You should not be paying for the care out of your own funds.

And do consider jessbow's point re POA and capacity (or rather lack thereof).

 

[Jessbow]

I am jus rather concerned that if Claire does indeed have POA, and come the day the SS come along to do their assessment , as a when Claire decides to *pop nan in a home* That Q's WILL be asked about her finances, and unless she sorts it out PDQ she could be in deep-dodo, given this misappropriation of nans funds.

Hopefully someone somewhere has a finger on nans finances

 

[claireizz]

If you have POA, nan has presumably been deemed to lack capacity to make her own sensible decisions.

is it for finance or health and welfare?

Hi, i have both but Social Services say their capacity assessment is different and stands alone and that POA does not affect their decision. They say handing over her finances etc is very different to agreeing to cared for. They say it's unethical and unlawful to proceed to arrange care without her consent when they deem her to be able to say yes or no to it.

 

[claireizz]

I am jus rather concerned that if Claire does indeed have POA, and come the day the SS come along to do their assessment , as a when Claire decides to *pop nan in a home* That Q's WILL be asked about her finances, and unless she sorts it out PDQ she could be in deep-dodo, given this misappropriation of nans funds.

Hopefully someone somewhere has a finger on nans finances

I completely agree which is another reason I feel completely tied to caring for her, to protect my mum.

 

[claireizz]

I completely agree which is another reason I feel completely tied to caring for her, to protect my mum.

Nan has an account that pensions go in to and bills and rent come out of. AA goes to my mum direct. I can't touch either.

 

[Lorna44]

If you have POA, Call them to get AA swapped to your Nan's A/C. As others have said this money is for your Nan's care and not for your Mum's personal use.... it must be very hard for you and puts you in a difficult position with your mum, but it could lead to trouble later if not sorted now.

 

[Jessbow]

What exactly is your POA for then, if you cant touch her finances and have no say in her welfare?

 

[claireizz]

What exactly is your POA for then, if you cant touch her finances and have no say in her welfare?

Very good question. Social services don't accept the POA as they say their capacity assessment is different. GP, hospital etc all accept it. Financial POA is a bit pointless as her pensions just cover her bills so I pay for everything else, it does seem to give me power to speak to her gas/electric company about getting better rates etc

 

[Pickles53]

Very good question. Social services don't accept the POA as they say their capacity assessment is different. GP, hospital etc all accept it. Financial POA is a bit pointless as her pensions just cover her bills so I pay for everything else, it does seem to give me power to speak to her gas/electric company about getting better rates etc

As an attorney for finance you can (and should) arrange for the DWP to change the bank account to which AA (and any other pension or benefit) is paid to an account which you manage. If necessary you can open a new account with any suitable bank. You do have a legal liability to ensure that the the donor's funds are used solely in her best interests so you are at some risk yourself if you allow this situation to continue.

 

[Bod]

Very good question. Social services don't accept the POA as they say their capacity assessment is different. GP, hospital etc all accept it. Financial POA is a bit pointless as her pensions just cover her bills so I pay for everything else, it does seem to give me power to speak to her gas/electric company about getting better rates etc

Contact Office of the Public Guardian, for their opinion.

I think you'll find SS may have some explaining to do, but check first.


Bod
PS. Who was the "Certificate Provider" on the POA?

 

[jakiflora]

I did everything I could to keep my fiercely independent Mum out of a care home. She would not accept Carers or day care.
In the end, enough was enough. She was at risk.
I took her to a care home, on the pretence that we were going to a hotel for lunch, and left her there. I have never felt so sad and guilty in all my life.
She eventually settled there. And two years on I wish I'd done it sooner. xx

 

[Jessbow]

Very good question. Social services don't accept the POA as they say their capacity assessment is different.

If you have an authorised POA- I presume its been registered with the OPG- Means you are authorised to make decisions. Capacity is capacity, however they assess it. If they mean they take PWD views into account they need taking to task.

Who assessed her for you to action the POA?

 

[Witzend]

I did everything I could to keep my fiercely independent Mum out of a care home. She would not accept Carers or day care.
In the end, enough was enough. She was at risk.
I took her to a care home, on the pretence that we were going to a hotel for lunch, and left her there. I have never felt so sad and guilty in all my life.
She eventually settled there. And two years on I wish I'd done it sooner. xx

We did the same. There would have been no point in discussing it with her - she would simply have refused to go. Why would she, when there was nothing wrong with her?? But TBH we should have done it sooner - there had already been one crisis.

I was dreading the actual day more than I've ever dreaded anything in my entire life, esp. since there was a 60 mile drive to get there (CH very close to me) and my sister and I were having kittens the whole way that our poor mother would twig, and demand to go home.
Thank heaven she didn't, and in fact it all went somewhat better than we'd feared.

 

[Risa]

Hi, i have both but Social Services say their capacity assessment is different and stands alone and that POA does not affect their decision. They say handing over her finances etc is very different to agreeing to cared for. They say it's unethical and unlawful to proceed to arrange care without her consent when they deem her to be able to say yes or no to it.

Hi Claireizz

Not sure if this helps but I had a SW around yesterday and we were talking about capacity assessments for people going into a care home where LA would be paying. We thought it was a case of the SW asking Mum what she did, was she happy to stay at home etc and she would obviously say she is fine and does cooking, cleaning and can look after herself. However the SW said no, it wasn't about asking the PWD want they wanted but to see if they would be safe. So they would ask more pointed questions like "You are alone in the house and have tripped and fallen on the floor, what would you do to get help". She demonstrated on Mum and Mum had no idea what she would do apart from saying the carpet was soft

The SW said they have to legally do the assessments and get them verified with someone else (so there would be 2 visits) in case a family member objected to the PWD going into a care home and tried to take them to Court saying the PWD was moved against their will.