Finances

[Eviejt]

Hi all,

a practical question for you. As a carer and appointee for a person (in my home) with dementia, are there any resources to advise on acceptable home costs to recoup from the benefits received on the sufferers behalf? Eg, the social worker advised I could buy a tv for a bedroom or anything else I needed to make his life and my caring for him easier or more comfortable but I would like to have something to refer to as a back up, is there anything out there?

thanks in advance x

 

[Shedrech]

Hi Eviejt
if you mean spending his benefits - seems to me that as long as the person can afford the items (I'm assuming you are not considering paying out 1000s) I think the key is "needed to make his life" easier - a TV he can watch more comfortably, a chair he finds it easier to get up from, cutlery he can use more easily, covers for bed/chairs if he is incontinent; all will improve his quality of life - just keep receipts (and check the item wouldn't be available from Adult Services)
if you mean spending your benefits eg carer's allowance for a TV for your bedroom - as far as I'm aware, it's entirely up to you how you spend your allowance
definitely don't use your funds on things for him, he should pay for anything that is for his benefit (I'm not being mean, just practical - when I was living off CA and my savings, I couldn't afford to 'treat' dad, and he could afford whatever was needed for himself)
PS I'm not sure whether there are any official rulings - but rarely do I read here of anyone who takes the time to worry actually intending to be profligate with someone else's funds, so take the word of the SW and go ahead

 

[Katrine]

There may be some guidance, I don't know.

Common sense advice is to keep a record of your spending decisions with a note as to why. This could just be a special notebook, or could be a spreadsheet if you want to be fancy.

IMO, the following areas of spend can be justified:
- Expenses of daily living - proportion of utility costs, insurance, house repairs, house and garden maintenance, transport costs etc.
- Expenses of personal living - food, clothes, shoes, toiletries, books, newspapers, magazines, hobby items, music, subscription to TV sports channel etc.
- Birthday and Christmas gifts to family and friends in line with previous pattern of gifts
- Home improvements or purchases to make life safer, more comfortable or pleasurable for the person's benefit (as the SW suggested).

Deciding what the person can afford depends on their level of income and savings, so you won't find any guidance set in stone. It all depends on circumstances.

 

[Eviejt]

Thankyou for your replies.

The problem I have is that the person I was caring for is no longer with me and at his estranged step sisters (who is seeking control of his property and finances) request I am now being asked to justify everything I have spent by the SW team stating that because he lacked capacity I had no right to make purchases on his behalf. I was his appointee and I know this is not the case, I obviously have no proof of the original conversation with the SW and they don't seem to have a clue about anything.

 

[Shedrech]

Hi Eviejt
what a tricky situation
I still think what I and Katrine wrote is what is acceptable
I'm not sure what an 'appointee' is - is this something he signed, when he had capacity? in which case, if you have the paperwork, that may show you had a right to support him with his finances
I'm guessing no-one has POA, and that the step-sisters are applying for Deputyship - why them and not you?
At what point was he considered to no longer have capacity? I'm just wondering when he moved, and why - if he had no capacity, who made that decision for him? (that seems a much bigger issue than buying a TV - and a health & welfare issue too)
If you no longer have receipts and records eg his bank statements - maybe list out what you remember buying with estimates of costs - including whether he contributed to household bills eg utilities, food, necessities eg bathroom essentials - and also list out all you have done for him eg organising care, personal care, washing, cooking, feeding, arranging and taking him to appointments ..... all the other things that I guess you shouldn't have been doing for him either
You obviously don't have to answer any of my questions - I'm just perplexed (and curious, I admit)
there are members who are much more in the know about these things, so you may have other responses
best wishes

 

[nitram]

As a DWP appointee you have the authority to spend all his DWP pension and benefits in his best interests. You have no right to control any other of his finances.

An appointee remains valid until withdrawn by the DWP unless an LPA or COP deputyship is granted, both of these override the appointeeship.

 

[Eviejt]

Hi Eviejt
what a tricky situation
I still think what I and Katrine wrote is what is acceptable
I'm not sure what an 'appointee' is - is this something he signed, when he had capacity? in which case, if you have the paperwork, that may show you had a right to support him with his finances
I'm guessing no-one has POA, and that the step-sisters are applying for Deputyship - why them and not you?
At what point was he considered to no longer have capacity? I'm just wondering when he moved, and why - if he had no capacity, who made that decision for him? (that seems a much bigger issue than buying a TV - and a health & welfare issue too)
If you no longer have receipts and records eg his bank statements - maybe list out what you remember buying with estimates of costs - including whether he contributed to household bills eg utilities, food, necessities eg bathroom essentials - and also list out all you have done for him eg organising care, personal care, washing, cooking, feeding, arranging and taking him to appointments ..... all the other things that I guess you shouldn't have been doing for him either
You obviously don't have to answer any of my questions - I'm just perplexed (and curious, I admit)
there are members who are much more in the know about these things, so you may have other responses
best wishes

Lol, there is more to it - a step sister who wants his property, an unprofessional and inadequate social worker and a whole load of errors that they are trying to bury. I initially asked for him to have respite care, "next of kin" who he wanted nothing to do with stepped in to make his decisions and within a week he'd made 2 escape attempts, smashed windows in the care home (which was too far away for me to visit) and was sectioned. I have no faith in the SC team because of how they have handled this and strongly suspect the flimsy accusation (which keeps changing which should be ringing alarm bells for them) made by his Step sister is merely a smear campaign to help her gain control.

Re the spends, I cared for him for over 2 years with out taking any indirect costs (just petrol and the odd lunch) or claiming Carers allowance.

Meantime he is stuck in a new home, too far from me and with no visitors. Spends most of the day trying to escape and damaging property. I don't even like to think about it now.

Total nightmare and it seems I'm being made the scapegoat.

 

[Shedrech]

Hi Eviejt

I cared for him for over 2 years with out taking any indirect costs (just petrol and the odd lunch) or claiming Carers allowance.

so make that abundantly clear
seems to me that he effectively owes you for his bed & board etc (see Katrine's list) - maybe work out roughly what that would be and let them know - was there a reason why you didn't claim Carer's Allowance? not everyone is eligible
I really would be tempted to give as much information as I possibly could, including any TV purchases etc - just to make a big fuss over how much you are out of pocket and how much it has cost you in other ways to be his main carer for that time - and make it clear that you don't appreciate your good name being questioned - and that you are considering contacting the OPG yourself to advise them of the actions of the step-sisters (I still don't see how they are accepted as 'next of kin' when he concretely showed his confidence in you by having you as main carer for 2 years - but as far as the SS are concerned they have to act in his best interests and look into any issues brought to their attention)
also let them know that you understand (even if they don't) that any property he has will have to be managed in his best interests and can only be done so legally by an Attorney or a Deputy
have you been to the CAB or had an initial chat with a solicitor? and there's the AS helpline, for someone to talk through the situation
best wishes

 

[Eviejt]

Hi, sorry to bump an old thread, things have moved on but not very much it seems.

I didn't provide a list of everything as I wanted them to concentrate on the accusations made which I felt might undermine my credibility and that there was a question mark over my honesty. After 9 months, and a whole load of hassle social care have completed their investigation and as expected have completely cleared me of any wrong doing. After speaking with COP I am aware that deputeeship is complete and I was expecting a letter with a legal request (from her solicitor) to transfer his finances across to his step sister. That hasn't arrived and rather than provide me with that and allow me to officially remove my name from his accounts - she has now been into the BS and from what I understand has repeated the baseless and unsubstantiated claims to them and involved their legal dept also suggesting that they should not have allowed him to make me a joint account holder. She his questioning his capacity retrospectively and the accounts are now frozen. I also have another account which his benefits were being paid into, I dread to think what she is going to do about this one, she will have no legal right as his name is not on it.

She is obviously prepared to stop at nothing to gain complete control (which now she has a legal obligation to manage in his interest I will happily oblige!) but she is dragging my good name through the mud to do it.

Any thoughts on what her next step might be or what my options are would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Evie

 

[Jessbow]

be careful- his funds into an account that doesn't have has name on? ( should prob say 'appointee for Mr W'

has no one questioned where his week by week benefits are going?

Are you related to him, or a carer?

 

[Eviejt]

be careful- his funds into an account that doesn't have has name on? ( should prob say 'appointee for Mr W'

has no one questioned where his week by week benefits are going?

Are you related to him, or a carer?

He was engaged to my mum who died 10 yrs ago - we are the closest thing he has to a family and invested nearly 30 yrs in a relationship with us. He had little contact with any of his siblings (none at all in recent years) and no children of his own.

I opened the account on advice from SC assessor when I became appointee for pension benefits etc and was responsible for that money at their insistence because of his diagnosis. SC agree I did this in accordance with procedure and have seen all statements during the course of their investigation.

 

[Eviejt]

Bump again

 

[la lucia]

Bump again

Personally, I would have been inclined to flag it all to the COP.

Meanwhile, I think I would write a letter to the solicitor repeating what you said about expecting to transfer the money, emphasising that you were exonerated by the investigation. Don't make any accusations, keep it polite and to the point and cc the bank.

I would ring the AZ society helpline for advice.

What horrible people

 

[Caroleca]

It just never ends...horrible people indeed!

 

[Eviejt]

Thanks for your replies everyone, I will get in touch with the legal dept of the BS myself tomorrow and see what they have to say about the accounts. I deposited some large amounts of money myself so they will have to ascertain ownership of it I assume which may a contributory factor to the freezing of them. Don't understand why they haven't been in touch with me though but one thing is for sure she has potentially made things a lot more difficult for herself

She is a horrible woman and I should have trusted that the man I was caring for was doing the right thing by keeping her at a very safe distance rather than my trying to respectfully involve her in his care at the later stage.

I gave a lot of thought over the weekend to issuing her a cease and desist letter to stop the accusations she has been repeating about me but have spoken with SC today and it seems they have not even advised her of the outcome of the investigation. I will be making further enquiries with some of his contacts - an old neighbour of his abruptly cut off contact with me when the step sister first went to his empty property and I suspect she has said something to them.

She is being really disrespectful toward me and indirectly to him but do you think a legal letter might be too much?