You're assessment centre experiences!

[SEASHELL]

Just wondering how many people on here have had experience of these places. Here's the link to my previous thread explaining what's happening with my mother --


http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...eing-kicked-out-of-hospital-couldve-fooled-me!


Does anyone also know how many of these places there are throughout the UK and if there's any limit on how long patients can stay in these places?

 

[Ann Mac]

My Mil is currently not in an assessment centre, but on an EMH ward, for assessment, in our local hospital. After many months of deteriorating behaviours as a result of Lewy Body Dementia, and a series of 'locum' psychiatrists simply prescribing more and more drugs each time that we or the Day care facility she goes to raised concerns, she was finally admitted in order for them to look at and assess her medication. We were told that they were going to 'strip back' all the drugs prescribed over the previous months, 'assess' how that affected her, then (if necessary) start from scratch to find if anything could be given that would help her with the excessive agitation she suffers from - several people have described her as tortured, she goes through hell with paranoia and delusions filling most of her days

Its been an absolute nightmare - rather than go over it all, I'm adding a link to a blog I wrote about the whole experience so far. We feel caught in a no-win situation at the moment - if there is no change, I doubt our ability to continue to care for her at home, but there are so few Nursing EMI places available that residential for her might mean her being moved literally hundreds of miles away from us. However, the consultant has gone out of his way to make clear that we risk making her worse if she stays in hospital

https://notjustforgetful.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/let-down-again/?fb_action_ids=10209435962566805&fb_action_types=news.publishes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[883880585057599]&action_type_map=[%22news.publishes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

 

[its a struggle]

Hand the guilt monster over to the Consultant.......

However, the consultant has gone out of his way to make clear that we risk making her worse if she stays in hospital

My bold above -
Ann you are not making MIL anything! I can see the guilt monster prowling in the language you are using to describe the situation.

Language is my particular bee in my bonnet. It is a very powerful tool that shapes and controls our actions, reactions, beliefs & thoughts. I believe that some of our medical services have been well trained in NLP and know exactly which buttons to press.

Please give the whole Mac family a break, you do not deserve to be handed this burden.

I have followed your So Bizarre thread from the start - you have made MIL, warm, comfortable, loved, safe, clean, respected, involved and an important part of your family. Never, never think that anything you are, or are not doing is making her worse. Dementia and the appalling shower that pass for professional health workers are doing that.

Rant over x

 

[SEASHELL]

My Mil is currently not in an assessment centre, but on an EMH ward, for assessment, in our local hospital. After many months of deteriorating behaviours as a result of Lewy Body Dementia, and a series of 'locum' psychiatrists simply prescribing more and more drugs each time that we or the Day care facility she goes to raised concerns, she was finally admitted in order for them to look at and assess her medication. We were told that they were going to 'strip back' all the drugs prescribed over the previous months, 'assess' how that affected her, then (if necessary) start from scratch to find if anything could be given that would help her with the excessive agitation she suffers from - several people have described her as tortured, she goes through hell with paranoia and delusions filling most of her days

Its been an absolute nightmare - rather than go over it all, I'm adding a link to a blog I wrote about the whole experience so far. We feel caught in a no-win situation at the moment - if there is no change, I doubt our ability to continue to care for her at home, but there are so few Nursing EMI places available that residential for her might mean her being moved literally hundreds of miles away from us. However, the consultant has gone out of his way to make clear that we risk making her worse if she stays in hospital

https://notjustforgetful.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/let-down-again/?fb_action_ids=10209435962566805&fb_action_types=news.publishes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[883880585057599]&action_type_map=[%22news.publishes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

Thanks I'll take a look at your blog. I also feel like I'm in a no win situation too. Don't get me wrong she seems to have good care in this place (though she did have some horrific injuries a while back) but what bothers me is if there was a real good look at her medication she could probably improve (see my thread link for explanation) yet there's no attempt to do this. Her medication's only been lowered after I made a fuss about it. Her life is wasting away in this place. I want to start taking her out but again the medication is probably still affecting her so it makes things a bit difficult.

 

[Ann Mac]

Bless you, thank you for your kind words, its a struggle. I agree that the 'professionals' undoubtably know what to say to try and coerce you into following their agenda, rather than the agenda of whats best for the carer and caree - we had one very 'unpleasant' meeting with the 'senior' consultant and ward manager, that we later described as nothing short of emotional blackmail, itwas just a series of repeated statements where the potential negatives of a specific option we were given (an option which was obviously not what they wanted us to take) were emphasised over and over. It was horrible

SEASHELL, we seem to have almost the opposite situation to what you are experiencing, in some respects Mil was admitted for the purpose of her meds being stripped back and hopefully sorted out so that whatever she ended up taking would actually help her presentation. Instead, for reasons we can't fathom, for a month they did little other than stop her maintenence antibiotics (without telling us) and stop her sleeping tablet - the consultant told us that she was 'sleeping well' without it, but several ward staff have told us that actually, she is now having a lot of disturbed nights - and they then wanted to discharge her, claiming she was on the 'optimum' medication, when in reality they had just added poor sleep to her existing issues. As I said to Its a Struggle', they have put a lot of emotional pressure on us to agree to her coming home and we have really had to stand firm and insist that they actually do carry out the medication assessement that they were supposed to carry out in the first place. I can understand why they weant her out ASAP - bed shortages and all that - but what I can't work out is why they are so reluctant (seemingly) to even try and sort out the meds

 

[SEASHELL]

Bless you, thank you for your kind words, its a struggle. I agree that the 'professionals' undoubtably know what to say to try and coerce you into following their agenda, rather than the agenda of whats best for the carer and caree - we had one very 'unpleasant' meeting with the 'senior' consultant and ward manager, that we later described as nothing short of emotional blackmail, itwas just a series of repeated statements where the potential negatives of a specific option we were given (an option which was obviously not what they wanted us to take) were emphasised over and over. It was horrible

SEASHELL, we seem to have almost the opposite situation to what you are experiencing, in some respects Mil was admitted for the purpose of her meds being stripped back and hopefully sorted out so that whatever she ended up taking would actually help her presentation. Instead, for reasons we can't fathom, for a month they did little other than stop her maintenence antibiotics (without telling us) and stop her sleeping tablet - the consultant told us that she was 'sleeping well' without it, but several ward staff have told us that actually, she is now having a lot of disturbed nights - and they then wanted to discharge her, claiming she was on the 'optimum' medication, when in reality they had just added poor sleep to her existing issues. As I said to Its a Struggle', they have put a lot of emotional pressure on us to agree to her coming home and we have really had to stand firm and insist that they actually do carry out the medication assessement that they were supposed to carry out in the first place. I can understand why they weant her out ASAP - bed shortages and all that - but what I can't work out is why they are so reluctant (seemingly) to even try and sort out the meds

Strange how the situations can be almost opposite. Maybe one of the reasons they're in no hurry to kick my mother out is my father said he throws them around £30 I think every month. I'm not sure it's even legal for the assessment centre to take this money as it's NHS. We had the emotional blackmail when she went into the nursing home before this assessment centre. They tried to make out there was no bed spaces and if we took her out she couldn't come back. I wish we had taken her out now and that place had extorionately high fees of about £700 per week. Absolutely disgusting they're even allowed to charge that much.

 

[jenniferpa]

With all due respect £30 a month isn't even what she would expect to have as a personal expense allowance if she was in a home funded by the LA - it would be closer to to £30 a week. Further, if this money is used for such things as toiletries and other small things such as newspapers, that's a perfectly reasonable thing for your father to do and the centre to request. You do realise the actual cost of a bed in a hospital (and I realise that this isn't but just to make you aware) is close to £450 a day? I can assure you they aren't keeping your mother there to make money.

 

[SEASHELL]

With all due respect £30 a month isn't even what she would expect to have as a personal expense allowance if she was in a home funded by the LA - it would be closer to to £30 a week. Further, if this money is used for such things as toiletries and other small things such as newspapers, that's a perfectly reasonable thing for your father to do and the centre to request. You do realise the actual cost of a bed in a hospital (and I realise that this isn't but just to make you aware) is close to £450 a day? I can assure you they aren't keeping your mother there to make money.

With all due respect to you also. How on Earth can a bed in hospital cost £450 a day?

 

[Izzy]

This is almost a year old but notes the cost as being more or less what Jennifer indicated-

https://data.gov.uk/data-request/nhs-hospital-stay

 

[Pickles53]

This is almost a year old but notes the cost as being more or less what Jennifer indicated-

https://data.gov.uk/data-request/nhs-hospital-stay

Thank you Izzy. I wish more people were aware of this.

 

[SEASHELL]

This is almost a year old but notes the cost as being more or less what Jennifer indicated-

https://data.gov.uk/data-request/nhs-hospital-stay

That page isn't loading for me. If that is the case then not only can I not in any way see how it would cost that totally ridiculous amount but let's not forget the government are trying to privatise the NHS so maybe it's in their interests to say it costs that much, seeing as its a government website.

 

[MollyD]

My bold above -
Ann you are not making MIL anything! I can see the guilt monster prowling in the language you are using to describe the situation.

Language is my particular bee in my bonnet. It is a very powerful tool that shapes and controls our actions, reactions, beliefs & thoughts. I believe that some of our medical services have been well trained in NLP and know exactly which buttons to press.

Please give the whole Mac family a break, you do not deserve to be handed this burden.

I have followed your So Bizarre thread from the start - you have made MIL, warm, comfortable, loved, safe, clean, respected, involved and an important part of your family. Never, never think that anything you are, or are not doing is making her worse. Dementia and the appalling shower that pass for professional health workers are doing that.

Rant over x

I wholly second your rant, its a struggle. The doctor used manipulative language to dump a medical/psychiatric responsibility onto you. You've been doing and continue to do everything in your MIL's best interests, Anne. It's a blatant disgrace that his words undermine this and are used in an attempt to wriggle out.

 

[canary]

https://data.gov.uk/data-request/nhs-hospital-stay

That page isn't loading for me.

No problems here.
Are you outside UK?

 

[SEASHELL]

I'm in the UK but I've seen it now. I think that's the biggest load of rubbish I've read for a long time.

How the hell could it cost anywhere near that amount? It just doesn't make any sense. Even £30 a day would be stretching things.

 

[Canadian Joanne]

How the hell could it cost anywhere near that amount? It just doesn't make any sense. Even £30 a day would be stretching things.

I think that figure was arrived at by taking into consideration salaries - not just medical staff but cleaners, orderlies, kitchen staff, security, maintenance, admin. I'm sure there are probably a few more I can't think of.

There are the standard overhead costs of operation - heating, light, water - all the utilities. Then supplies - medical and non-medical. Machinery - medical and non-medical.

I'm sure there is a lot I can't think of so I am not at all surprised at a figure of £450. Be grateful you are not in the US, where the medical system is run for profit. Here's a link which says the average stay is 4.5 days and the cost is $10,400 per stay. Obviously, with a for-profit system, the more complicated the issue is, the more tests and procedures will be required, at a heavier cost.

 

[SEASHELL]

I think that figure was arrived at by taking into consideration salaries - not just medical staff but cleaners, orderlies, kitchen staff, security, maintenance, admin. I'm sure there are probably a few more I can't think of.

There are the standard overhead costs of operation - heating, light, water - all the utilities. Then supplies - medical and non-medical. Machinery - medical and non-medical.

I'm sure there is a lot I can't think of so I am not at all surprised at a figure of £450. Be grateful you are not in the US, where the medical system is run for profit. Here's a link which says the average stay is 4.5 days and the cost is $10,400 per stay. Obviously, with a for-profit system, the more complicated the issue is, the more tests and procedures will be required, at a heavier cost.

I still don't see it. Some nights there's not that many people per person on the ward anyway. There's no way having someone staying in a bed overnight can cost £450. Again it doesn't make any sense.

As for the US well they're trying to give us in the UK that wonderful US health care system bit by bit. Especially with this TTIP so called trade deal.

 

[jenniferpa]

A hospital could be entirely empty but still have underlying costs. How many beds are filled makes no difference to that. Think of it this way: if you have a house and a mortgage and you go away for holiday for two weeks: you're still paying your mortgage, your insurance, your council tax and everything else that goes along with it. Now a hospital has staff and heating and cooling etc etc etc on top of the base level expenses. You could have one person in a bed but the hospital still has to have almost all the level of services they would need to have if it was filled. They might save on food and laundry and water and probably a few other things, but it still costs money to stay open.

I can't think of a more straightforward way to explain it: £450 is the approximate cost of a 24 hour stay in an NHS hospital. It might not seem right to you, but that's the cost. An assessment center which doesn't have all the high tech things like MRIs etc probably costs £200 a day. But it's still expensive.

 

[SEASHELL]

A hospital could be entirely empty but still have underlying costs. How many beds are filled makes no difference to that. Think of it this way: if you have a house and a mortgage and you go away for holiday for two weeks: you're still paying your mortgage, your insurance, your council tax and everything else that goes along with it. Now a hospital has staff and heating and cooling etc etc etc on top of the base level expenses. You could have one person in a bed but the hospital still has to have almost all the level of services they would need to have if it was filled. They might save on food and laundry and water and probably a few other things, but it still costs money to stay open.

I can't think of a more straightforward way to explain it: £450 is the approximate cost of a 24 hour stay in an NHS hospital. It might not seem right to you, but that's the cost. An assessment center which doesn't have all the high tech things like MRIs etc probably costs £200 a day. But it's still expensive.

Maybe it does but I'm 'highly' sceptical of that amount especially as it's on a government website and they're running the NHS down so they can privatise it. I don't know you're position but I fully support the NHS. I'm just trying to get my mother out of a bad situation and find out more about these assessment centre's. Are they even allowed to hold my mother for so long even though my mother is touch wood probably better than all of the other patients in there.

 

[dottyd]

It's a struggle... I like your take on things.

I'm hoping you will start a thread and say more.

I've heard of nlp ..but have never done a course.on it.

Maybe we all need too.

 

[SEASHELL]

It's a struggle... I like your take on things.

I'm hoping you will start a thread and say more.

I've heard of nlp ..but have never done a course.on it.

Maybe we all need too.

I'm afraid you've lost me a bit there? nlp??