Do we move our mother just to placate her?

[Gregor]

Sorry to trouble everyone here, I'm hoping that someone else has gone through the same situation and may be able to give some words of advice on how to handle it best please.

It's also therapy for myself to be able to write things down

My mother, who lives in Scotland, has both Alzheimer's and vascular dementia and is the "medium" stage. Unfortunately my brother lives almost 300 miles away and I 500 miles. My brother and I have joint POA which has been activated in Scotland.

In the past my mother has wanted to move near either my brother or myself but no house was good enough or near enough. The situation now is that my mother is determined to move but will not compromise on the size of the house or it's location. The fact is that she cannot afford what she wants in either location. The other factor is that she has reached a stage with her conditions where both my brother and I and the health visitors believe that moving my mother would be the worst thing for her. She is currently getting four health visitors a day who are amazing with my mother and mother has become very fond of them. Also she has all her friends in the village where she lives who visit and take her out each week for a coffee or a lunch. Moving our mother now would result in a high possibility of her not being able to find her way back if she went out for a walk etc and the SW has advised that moving her now would greatly increase the possibility of her conditions worsening. My mother has also adamantly refused to move to sheltered housing.

The situation has now reached a stage where we can no longer distract her when she raises the topic and she is demanding that both my brother and I sell her house and move her down south to England to be next to one of us. When I say demanding that is putting it politely, as she becomes very aggressive. My mother is and has always been a very controlling and strong willed character.

In the past both my brother and myself have acted and said things just to placate our mother to avoid her going into a rage and/or not to hurt her feelings. It's now reached a stage where my brother and I can't continue with that strategy, as it's causing a great deal of emotional distress with all parties involved.

My question is do we move her just to placate her or do we do what we believe is best for her, even if it means all the emotional hurt that she will experience of rejection etc.

Many thanks in advance.

Gregor

PS Many thanks to everyone who has shared their stories, advice and emotions on this forum, it gives so much support and makes you realise that you are not alone

 

[marionq]

Don't move her. She will continue her demands in another form because that is her condition. It is very difficult to get a care package that works so I would not disrupt what she has at present. If things deteriorate she may need a care home and then you can revisit the question. Just keep delaying her.

 

[Shedrech]

Hi Gregor
sounds to me as though you both are caring for your mum wonderfully well
and that she would be best staying where she is
so maybe a bit of sleight of hand?
could you both 'agree' to a move and have her look at brochures or on line - she won't find a suitable house, from what you say, and she can't make any move until hers is sold
and either say you are putting her house on the market, but the estate agent has said it's best not to put a board up - OR, actually put it on the market but at too high a price so there's no interest in it and you can all commiserate with each other about the state of the market at the moment, or blame the estate agent or ... whatever excuses you can come up with
I appreciate this depends on your mum not being able to see through the rouse
worth a try?

 

[Pinkys]

Absolutely. do not move her, as there will be another demand which you cannot meet. The move would be very disruptive. The carers would be very hard to replace. You would probably find she demanded that you sell the new house (assuming you could get one!) and return to Scotland. I have a 'very controlling and strong willed character' as a MiL. It is not easy, but you cannot go along with this one. It would be madness.

Trying to think about it all from her perspective, what is the motivation? Does she want to see you and your brother more often? Is Skype at all a possibility, with the carers managing it obviously. Or is it 'just' about control? you have said 'no' and so she will insist 'yes'.

You could get lots of local house brochures, all massively too expensive (i.e. all houses in the south, I expect) or massively wrong..they may occupy her, until the mood moves on. Send her a bundle a week. Does she understand about the money? if so, just send ones that are wrong. Discuss the wrongness of each one at length. Commiserate with how hard it is. if she likes one, wait a day then tell her it is sold..more commiseration.

Maybe enlist friends etc, to say 'I hear you are thinking about moving! oh no, we would miss you so much' etc etc. who knows.

 

[Gregor]

Many thanks for your replies Marionq and Shedrech.

Unfortunately my mother has seen through our delaying tactics in selling the house and has accused us of keeping her prisoner there. She has said "So you want me to die in this house". It's emotionally distressing to hear that and it's taken a great deal out of my brother who has been in therapy for the past 9 months to deal with his emotions. I feel so much for both my mother and my brother. Our father had dementia, so to an extent we know what to expect, except that my father was happy throughout the whole time until he died 5 years ago.

It's accepting all the emotion turmoil that will be inevitable and unavoidable. We don't want to hurt our mother and it's heartbreaking to see her when she is so upset and angry.

It's taking one step at a time I believe and dealing with the emotions as they happen. Easier said than done

 

[Gregor]

Hi Pinkys

Many thanks for your reply.

Her friends have told me that no matter where she moves it would never be good enough. Thankfully they understand and are very supportive of my brother and I. They know how difficult it is for us. My mother is now saying that she would sell her house at a knock down price just to enable her to move, she is an intelligent lady and can now see through the ruses that my brother and I have tried to use as delaying tactics.

When trying to use the cost of housing, especially where I am on the south coast of England, she demands that there must be something there she can move to - she also wants a view of mountains as well, not possible in Dorset!!! But is gives a measure of what she wants, demands and expects!

Thanks again

 

[Aisling]

Sorry to trouble everyone here, I'm hoping that someone else has gone through the same situation and may be able to give some words of advice on how to handle it best please.

It's also therapy for myself to be able to write things down

My mother, who lives in Scotland, has both Alzheimer's and vascular dementia and is the "medium" stage. Unfortunately my brother lives almost 300 miles away and I 500 miles. My brother and I have joint POA which has been activated in Scotland.

In the past my mother has wanted to move near either my brother or myself but no house was good enough or near enough. The situation now is that my mother is determined to move but will not compromise on the size of the house or it's location. The fact is that she cannot afford what she wants in either location. The other factor is that she has reached a stage with her conditions where both my brother and I and the health visitors believe that moving my mother would be the worst thing for her. She is currently getting four health visitors a day who are amazing with my mother and mother has become very fond of them. Also she has all her friends in the village where she lives who visit and take her out each week for a coffee or a lunch. Moving our mother now would result in a high possibility of her not being able to find her way back if she went out for a walk etc and the SW has advised that moving her now would greatly increase the possibility of her conditions worsening. My mother has also adamantly refused to move to sheltered housing.

The situation has now reached a stage where we can no longer distract her when she raises the topic and she is demanding that both my brother and I sell her house and move her down south to England to be next to one of us. When I say demanding that is putting it politely, as she becomes very aggressive. My mother is and has always been a very controlling and strong willed character.

In the past both my brother and myself have acted and said things just to placate our mother to avoid her going into a rage and/or not to hurt her feelings. It's now reached a stage where my brother and I can't continue with that strategy, as it's causing a great deal of emotional distress with all parties involved.

My question is do we move her just to placate her or do we do what we believe is best for her, even if it means all the emotional hurt that she will experience of rejection etc.

Many thanks in advance.

Gregor

PS Many thanks to everyone who has shared their stories, advice and emotions on this forum, it gives so much support and makes you realise that you are not alone

You are correct. One step at a time. It is so difficult. Moving her to another house is not the answer. You are trying all the options ie brochures etc. just wondering if you took photographs of her house, put them in an album and then gave it to her as a surprise. Don't explain anything about it, just pop it on her table and this might distract for a while. I hope her fixation passes soon but unfortunity it may or may not. She has great care and friends. Could some friends suggest that they would miss her if she moved? Am clutching at straws . We all do it.

Support from,

Aisling

 

[Canadian Joanne]

I agree that she should not be moved, as it really does not seem to be in her best interest. I am glad you and your brother have POA. Would she still be able to sell her house in this case? I don't know how the ins & outs work in Scotland.

Why is she so adamant that she wants to move to be near you? Forgive me, but she doesn't sound like she's looking forward to seeing you more.

 

[Amy in the US]

Gregor, there is no need to apologise, it is no trouble for you to post and we are glad to try to be of help. TP is here for support, so don't hesitate to use it. It can also be helpful for others, for you to share your story, so don't forget that you are contributing as well.

I am very sorry to hear about the situation with your mother, which sounds incredibly challenging. This must be very difficult for you and your family.

I have thought long and hard about this one, but am not sure I have anything to offer that hasn't already been said, or that you haven't already thought of.

I agree that if your mother is reasonably stable with a good care package, that moving house right now is probably a bad idea. The upset (sorting, clearing, packing, the move itself) would likely be overwhelming for her and I don't know how well she would settle in a new house. And there is the huge issue (of which I assume she is not cognizant) of finding new carers, new doctors, all the really important things that the PWD (person with dementia) can no longer handle. And if she is still having social contact with friends and neighbours, that's another reason not to move her. She is not going to make new friends in a new town, not easily, if at all.

I also feel compelled to point out that because of the dementia, any place you move her to is likely to be not good enough. You could go through with a move, to a place she chooses, only to get her there and find she wants to move all over again. As you say, she is currently wanting the impossible (forgive my rubbish knowledge of UK geography, but I take it that Dorset hasn't got mountains? I do know it's on the south coast!) and that is not going to change. A stubborn, strong willed personality pre-dementia, combined with dementia (and mixed dementia at that) is never going to be an easy combination. Please remember that you cannot reason with dementia. No matter how many "facts" you present, your mother is not going to have a logical, reasoned, rational response. She has unfortunately got fixated on moving house and while these sorts of obsessions are common with dementia, that does not make them easy to deal with.

I can see that it's a worry to have her located so far away from both you and your brother, and if and when the time does come to move her to sheltered housing or respite or a care home or whatever, then I hope you will consider a location closer to you. (I was only a hundred miles away from my mother before she moved into a care home, and that about killed me, so I know it must be difficult for you.)

I also would like to urge you and your brother to get some support for yourselves. Perhaps there is a carer's cafe or support group in your area you could attend, or spend more time with the lovely people on TP. I know this is very easy for me to say and very hard for you to do, but it would help you to have some support for yourself and perhaps learn some other ways to try to communicate with, and deal with, your mother and her statements. You are not a bad person, you are not doing anything wrong, and you are doing everything in your power to make sure your mother is looked after. But you probably cannot do anything, to make her happy. That is not your fault, but rather the fault of the disease (and perhaps her personality). Please remember that, and be kind to yourself. Dementia can destroy more than just the person with the disease.

 

[Witzend]

How is her short term memory? Could you just keep saying you are looking, but there's nothing suitable on the market at the moment?

After my mother went into her CH and things were pretty difficult, I told her over and over that I was looking for a nice little flat for her, just down the road from me. It always pacified her for the moment, and she never remembered that I'd said much the same before.

 

[fizzie]

My next door neighbour made a very successful move at 93 much against his wishes to a 'care home' in Devon from Hertfordshire where there were flats attached to a care home. His wife went into the care home and he went into a flat and I think even he was surprised at how successful it was. His wife who had significant dementia made the transition with no problem.

I did speak to a dementia 'expert' some time ago who said a move need not be at all traumatic if the right place is found.

I'm just wondering if you don't move her now how will you manage the next stage of care?

sorry playing devils advocate here

 

[Amy in the US]

Fizzie, I think that's a valid point and I was struggling about how to possibly express it. I suppose perhaps having more details about Gregor's mother's situation might help?

However I am not sure that a move to a house, that she "selects," and then lives in by herself, is going to be an answer. If she is going to continue living on her own it sounds like the current situation is as good as possible, for now.

Another possible idea, that I hesitated to suggest, is for Gregor and brother to say, okay, mum, it sounds like you want to move, so go right ahead: you get to work to find a house and sell this one and clean it up and pack and sort it all out and let us know what you decide. I have heard of people taking this tactic with their PWD but have no idea how that would work in this instance.

I'm sorry it's all so difficult.

 

[Otiruz]

Hello Gregor

In the past my mother has wanted to move near either my brother or myself but no house was good enough or near enough. The situation now is that my mother is determined to move but will not compromise on the size of the house or it's location. The fact is that she cannot afford what she wants in either location. The other factor is that she has reached a stage with her conditions where both my brother and I and the health visitors believe that moving my mother would be the worst thing for her. She is currently getting four health visitors a day who are amazing with my mother and mother has become very fond of them. Also she has all her friends in the village where she lives who visit and take her out each week for a coffee or a lunch. Moving our mother now would result in a high possibility of her not being able to find her way back if she went out for a walk etc and the SW has advised that moving her now would greatly increase the possibility of her conditions worsening. My mother has also adamantly refused to move to sheltered housing

Short answer to your question is NO. Move her because you and your brother feel it's in her best interest, move her because you feel she will receive quality care, move her because in the long run you and you brother have absolutely no alternative but DONT move her to placate her.

Your lovely mum has dementia and Alzheimers, she does not have the capacity to make such life-changing decisions. Even if she is very convincing or bullying you and your brother - she is unable to see the consequences of such a move. Four carers a day tells me your mum requires considerable help and is holding on hard and fast to the remnants of her life. This is truly difficult for loved ones especially when, in your own words, you usually appease her. The time has come for you and your brother to stand firm for mum's own good.

Is there any value in finding a months respite in a home near you or your brother to enable you all to 'look' for a house for her? Possibly taking the opportunity to see what is available in the future should you need it. The moving house desire may be a significant part of the dementia which is about control as well as a repetitive behaviour. Potentially this could be replaced by something else irrespective of whether she moves. It could also be that having gone through the turmoil and upheaval of moving her she will actually feel no benefit at all. You could be left feeling it was not a successful move, a waste of money and an emotionally draining experience. In the time it takes to organise such a move mum's condition may have moved into a difference phase whereby even living at home with carers is impossible.

Unfortunately your mother's condition will only worsen with time and you and your brother may at some stage decide to move her closer to you anyway, but within the confines of a care home. One move is infinitely better than two. As long as you are both confident that her care package is presently the best option at this stage of the disease it could be that she needs to continue with it. Ultimately, your decision will achieve a better outcome based on weighing up the pro's and con's. Try not to allow emotion or guilt to play a part.

Hope you find an answer among the TP folk - we have all been there one way or another.

 

[Missy]

My understanding of the role of POA is to act in the person's best interests, which doesn't necessarily involve doing things just to placate them.

I agree with those who suggest revisiting a move when the time comes for 24/7 care. The move south, finding the house, finding the care package, setting up a network of friends will take time and it might be that a short time after another move is needed.

 

[theunknown]

I agree with all those who've commented on here. However, I'm coming at it from a different perspective. I didn't know my mum was having these sort of problems until she was actually sectioned. I put most things down to her personality which, of course, I'd lived with. When my mum was sectioned I needed to find a care home quickly. I realise this makes me sound like a terrible daughter, but I also know that I don't need to go into the ins and outs of our relationship because hopefully I won't be judged on 'talking point'.

I absolutely hated the hospital unit she was placed in and the way she was acting at the time (hallucinations and sheer fear). It was scary for me, and must have been many more times scary for her. Once it was decided that she couldn't return to her own home it seemed to be a scramble to get my mum out of a hospital bed and for the hospital social services department to discharge their responsibility towards her. I found a care home (which I'm still happy with, after a year) near me, but this means that she hasn't had visits from the people that she knew as friends and neighbours. They were able to visit my mum in the hospital ward (although this wasn't a frequent occurence). I don't know if she'd know them now. My guilt stems from thinking that, if I'd organised a care home placement where she was living before she was sectioned, then perhaps she'd get visits from her friends, rather than just us. And they used to see a lot more of her than I did. To be honest, I don't think you'll ever feel you've done the 'right' thing. There is no right thing, because we're all flailing about in the dark, with no professional guidance.

Use your head to think about what's right for you and your brother, because your mum can't think logically anymore. Your care for how she feels will be the best thing you can offer.

 

[fizzie]

Hi The Unknown
sounds to me as though you've done a fantastic job in very difficult circumstances. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to show that once someone goes into a care home it is mostly family who visit, friends and acquaintances drop off slowly but surely and also that family are the most lasting connection - something to do with voices and 'history' like the comforting voice or touch of a mother/brother etc - people just know. My gut feeling is that you've done the right thing and that family duty and connection is stronger and more long lasting than friends. Also if anything goes wrong friends don't have the same 'power' as family to intervene and get things back on track. So if you can knock the guilt monster on the head and be peaceful in the knowledge that you did the very best thing for your Mum and it has worked out well x

 

[Gregor]

Many thanks to everyone who has posted, it's been a great support!

Yesterday I had two phone calls from my mother who left messages demanding when the house will be put up for sale. Each time I could feel my stomach clench.

Thank you for saying that as a POA you have to do what is best for the person. I've told my brother that on occasion and we both agree that it's best that she stays where she is for the present.

Today I'm waiting for another phone call from my mother and I want to say to her that I don't agree with her and that I believe that it's best for her to stay in her own home - then stand back and deal with the explosions that will come. It's the emotional hurt that I find hard to deal with, not for myself but the hurt and abandonment that my mother will feel. We are dealing with the feelings of helplessness and guilt of not being able to do anything that will make our mother truly happy and having to do something that will give her negative emotions. At times the right thing to do is the hardest thing to do.

Many thanks again to everyone. Take it one day at a time and one step at a time. This week has become overwhelming with emotions.

 

[arielsmelody]

.. I found a care home (which I'm still happy with, after a year) near me, but this means that she hasn't had visits from the people that she knew as friends and neighbours. They were able to visit my mum in the hospital ward (although this wasn't a frequent occurence). ...

This did strike a chord with me - my mum suffered a spinal injury out of the blue a couple of years ago, and our first thought was that she and my dad should move 200 miles to be closer to us. In the end, they decided to stay where they are, which means much less practical help from family but they have kept in touch with their friends and neighbours so socially it's better for them than moving to a totally new area. It's such a difficult balance and there isn't one perfect answer.

 

[Amy in the US]

Gregor, thank you for coming back with an update. I am sorry to hear that the messages your mother left you were upsetting. I have been there, done that with my mother (although she has stopped saying nasty things to my face, mostly, she stills leaves the occasional vitriolic voice mail, usually related to her delusions, but upsetting nonetheless). You might consider, when your mother leaves a voice mail, deleting it without listening, or have someone else screen it for you. There is no point upsetting yourself needlessly and you've heard it all before.

You are correct that often the right thing to do, is not an easy thing to do.

If it is any comfort to you, there are often times in dealing with dementia when it is impossible to make the person with dementia happy. We often have to choose what the person needs over what the person "wants," or thinks/says they want. At the end of the day, you do what you have to do so you can sleep at night and live with yourself.

You and your brother have Power of Attorney and you will work together to find the best possible solution, for right now. That situation might change tomorrow or next week or next year, but all you can do for now, is the best you can do.

While you can try your best to avoid any upset or distress for your mother (as I am sure you and I and everyone else here do), as you say, sometimes it is unavoidable. Sometimes the PWD (person with dementia) can be distracted, placated, or redirected. But sometimes, no matter what you try, they cannot (read Ann Mac's thread on her MIL, So Bizarre, for an example of someone with very challenging behaviour who does not distract).

My only other thought at the moment is if your mother hasn't had a medication review lately, that would be something to talk to the GP/consultant/memory clinic/whatever doctor about. My mother's medications need to be assessed and changed on a fairly regular basis. This helps keep her calm and sleep better and also helps with pain management (chronic pain from arthritis and an old injury). When she is in pain, she doesn't function well at all and is often more irascible. I wonder if your mother could be experiencing any pain or if it's just time to check her medications.

Again, wishing you all the best in this very difficult situation. If you have a chance and wish to, please let us know how you get on.

 

[Nut]

Thank you for posting

Dear Gregor
don't apologise for posting. I am pleased you have and it might encourage me to post more often. My mother can also be similarly unpleasant and strong willed and as a result of her behaviour over the last two years I have had anxiety and depression. I feel for your brother and wish him and you well. Please work hard at preserving your own lives and sanity while this goes on. Your mother is safe and cared for.

So, a move? Some other aspects spring to mind. My guess is your mother might want to be nearer you as she is scared she is losing herself and wants contact with you/your brother for reassurance. Maybe try and find a good care home near you for a respite stay 'while she looks at houses'... She might actually like it, she might secretly be relieved to be in a home... She will very probably need to be cared for in that setting in the future.

Are things really ticking over OK in Scotland? Is the disease progressing? Is she lonelier than she makes out? My mother fibbed for ages about who came to see her and going to church trying to make out things were better than they were.

Another thought might be that your mother is experiencing depression and it is being expressed as verbal aggression. I keep reading more and more about depression and it is not just a case of the miseries, it is a complex mental health problem and can be come out as fixations and obsessions (cf Ruby Wax, Sane New World). My own mother's tendency to nastiness has been tempered by a GP prescribing Sertraline. She seems calmer and a bit more content in her own skin.

As other people have said the law requires it to be a best interest decision. Who makes that? When I called the AS helpline about issues to do with my own Mum I was advised that without a health and welfare LPA the person who would make a decision about a move would be a social worker, and that would be dependent on whether the person had capacity to make her own decision. Moving house is complex, difficult and my assumption would be that your mother lacks the capacity to think through the consequences of her decision. The social worker in Scotland has said not to move her which although not a formal decision is near as dammit.

How to cope with the fallout? With the ongoing demands? I don't know! It's hard and horrible and very very difficult from a distance. I would assure you that your own needs for respect, safety and time to live your own life are valid, entirely valid. If we don't look after ourselves how will we be able to be there for them in the long term?

wishing you all the very best.