Selling Dad's House

[looviloo]

Dad's been in his care home for about 10 months, and we've moved on to the stage of selling his old house. It's difficult (as many of you know) because it was the family home for over 50 years and he is still incredibly attached to it.

On a practical level, we all know it is the right decision - dad needs overnight care, and moving back home just isn't an option any more. And then there's the money, of course, needed for him to stay where he now is.

But it's SO difficult and I find I'm wobbling all the time at the moment. My biggest issue is dad's inability to see things clearly. Obviously this is the dementia (vascular), but his decision making is impaired to the point that his viewpoint varies from visit to visit, day to day. This is a bigger issue than his memory loss. Plus, he can be very convincing!

So, we usually end up talking about 'the old house' on my visits, despite trying distraction and all the usual techniques. He brings up similar topics each time, revolving around personal items such as tools, his fishing rod, radios, paperwork and so on. But he always has a different view about what should happen to them. Sometimes, he tells me to give things away, or to his friends. And other times under-no-circumstances am I to do anything with them or dispose of them without his say so! I even had some finger-wagging from him this week, as he told me he needs to see it all and make his own decisions... I'm very vague in my responses. It's getting more and more uncomfortable now that many of the items have been sold at auction, or given to charity. And he doesn't know about the house sale, that would crush him.

I'm finding the situation very stressful. I thought I was coping but my mind is a whirl again. I don't think he'll ever understand or accept the situation although I'm hoping it's just another phase that will pass quickly, but who knows??? Sorry this is a ramble, and thanks for reading x

 

[Grannie G]

Hello looviloo

No your granddad cannot be relied on to stay with a decision so all you can do is go along with whatever he says at the time.

So if he is adamant his tools should not be touched, agree with him and reassure him his tools are safe .

If he tells you to get rid of them tell him you will do so.

 

[looviloo]

No your granddad cannot be relied on to stay with a decision so all you can do is go along with whatever he says at the time.

So if he is adamant his tools should not be touched, agree with him and reassure him his tools are safe .

If he tells you to get rid of them tell him you will do so.

Thanks Granny G, that's pretty much what I do. I just feel so deceptive sometimes and it really goes against the grain. Sigh.

 

[Witzend]

Personally I would just say whatever will keep him happy for the moment, whether it's a whopper or not.
And try not to feel bad about it. You are doing your best for him - you are only doing what needs to be done.

 

[CJinUSA]

Dad's been in his care home for about 10 months, and we've moved on to the stage of selling his old house. It's difficult (as many of you know) because it was the family home for over 50 years and he is still incredibly attached to it.

On a practical level, we all know it is the right decision - dad needs overnight care, and moving back home just isn't an option any more. And then there's the money, of course, needed for him to stay where he now is.

But it's SO difficult and I find I'm wobbling all the time at the moment. My biggest issue is dad's inability to see things clearly. Obviously this is the dementia (vascular), but his decision making is impaired to the point that his viewpoint varies from visit to visit, day to day. This is a bigger issue than his memory loss. Plus, he can be very convincing!

So, we usually end up talking about 'the old house' on my visits, despite trying distraction and all the usual techniques. He brings up similar topics each time, revolving around personal items such as tools, his fishing rod, radios, paperwork and so on. But he always has a different view about what should happen to them. Sometimes, he tells me to give things away, or to his friends. And other times under-no-circumstances am I to do anything with them or dispose of them without his say so! I even had some finger-wagging from him this week, as he told me he needs to see it all and make his own decisions... I'm very vague in my responses. It's getting more and more uncomfortable now that many of the items have been sold at auction, or given to charity. And he doesn't know about the house sale, that would crush him.

I'm finding the situation very stressful. I thought I was coping but my mind is a whirl again. I don't think he'll ever understand or accept the situation although I'm hoping it's just another phase that will pass quickly, but who knows??? Sorry this is a ramble, and thanks for reading x

I agree with the others - that you need to say whatever will appease in the moment, if he is terribly agitated. The finger-wagging suggests he feels terrifically his absence of control over his life and possessions. I'd feel the same way!

What we did with my mother is we made her feel that she was generously passing them on to us or to even the next generation. My mother was living with me at the time my sisters had to dismantle and sell her house. They did actually keep a good amount of her things, and they put the odds and ends into boxes that went into storage for the grandkids to go through. They brought to us whatever she insisted she needed, and we would open the box with her there, and she would often say "Well, why did you bring this? I don't need this here."

So I just wondered if you could possibly make him feel like "O, cousin Jeff so admired your [tool] that he was hoping it would be okay with you if he had it." Something like that, where you could say that someone is hoping to have this or that and to use it in memory of the fond hours they spent with him.

Finally, I wanted to say this process is terribly difficult, especially if you are the one doing the sorting *and* having to deal with the emotional trauma of his living recollection of his lost life at home. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Katrine]

Thinking rationally about all this stuff, your Dad has now moved to a CH and isn't going to need any of it. Decisions by him about what to keep are therefore redundant. It's his old life that he wants to keep, and you feel dreadful because your are rapidly dismantling the evidence of that life. It is horribly painful, and my heart goes out to you.

It must be very sad to do this after a parent has died, but it is tragic to have to do it when they are still alive. We had to clear and sell MIL's house. Her other son and daughter chose some items to keep, and OH has also kept a small remnant of her possessions. He has only recently been able to sift these further into what he wants to keep for posterity. It grieves him that her whole life is reduced to a couple of boxes of mementos. Then we also have a wardrobe of her clothes, so that we can replace things as needed. That also is upsetting. Clothes are such personal things. I would not like someone else choosing my clothes and putting name labels on my underwear.

I have also cleared vast quantities of stuff at my mum's house. She still lives there, with carers. It was necessary to do a loft conversion to create extra bedrooms. All her boxes of china, glass and ornaments were ruthlessly pruned. Most were sold. Lots of brown furniture and bric-a-brac went the same way. I have chucked and replaced carpets, chairs, beds, mattresses, lamps, kitchenware, appliances, towels and linen, and all her clothes and shoes. "Fit for purpose" has been my mantra.

It is necessary, but continues to be painful. I feel guilty that she has no idea that I have done all this, effectively behind her back. She always used to say "You can sell it all when I'm gone". She also used to say "I never want you to have control over my life because I don't trust you. You will bully me." So on the one hand I believe I am acting in her best interests, and on the other hand I know that my pre-dementia mum would regard how things have turned out as being confirmation of her worst fears.

What saves me from getting depressed is the following:
- Validation from other people that I am acting in my mum's best interests
- Advice from other people that accepting the pain in bite sized chunks can avert an emotional tsunami about possessions when your relative dies
- Letting go of 'stuff' helps me focus on the present not the past
- I imagine my dad being there to advise me. He would know that all the stuff had emotional resonance for her but was unimportant in itself. If she no longer needs it....

looviloo, I would advise you to take lots of pictures. That way you can remember things from your family home without needing the physical objects. If items go to auction, keep the sale catalogues, or download images from the auction website.

 

[Witzend]

I agree that it's awful, clearing a house while the person is still alive. We felt as if we were throwing our mother's life away. It's even harder than after someone has died, IMO, and I've done both.
Hardest were little things of no value except sentimental. One thing I could not bring myself to chuck was my mother's ancient wooden spoon. She'd had it for ever, and one side was worn right down. And still is - it's in my kitchen drawer.

 

[Bessieb]

I'm going through the same thing looviloo. I sold my parents house in January. They ask me often if the house is OK and talk when they will go home. There was never any prospect of them to returning to it and the money is needed for CH fees but it's still incredibly hard. The day we exchanged I cried all day.

When my parents ask about the house I say it is 'exactly as they left it' ...which is the closest I can get to the truth without upsetting them. It is exactly as a they left it but with someone else living in it.

And I have the same thing with sometimes my Dad saying it should be sold and other times that I don't have his authority to sell it. So I go along with whatever the position is on the day. And hate it all. I so wish I could have a rational, truthful conversation with them. But I can't.

So I know exactly how you feel. It's horrible and hard.

 

[looviloo]

Thanks so much for everybody's comments, it helps a lot to know that you all understand. I really feel for anyone in a similar situation and send you all hugs and best wishes. I felt very low this morning, but luckily I have a supportive family and with your help, their help and a walk in the sunshine I feel much better this evening .

Most of the time I can cope... but sometimes the feelings are quite overwhelming. Katrine, I also talk to my mum in the same way that you do to your dad. She would advise me the same way your dad does, if she were here. Although mum was a dreadful hoarder, she realised she couldn't 'take it with her' (her words) and told me to sell it all once she had passed. Of course, she didn't realise that dad would be with us for many more years, and that he would be so stubborn about parting with it all! But it helps me to think what she said when I'm having a wobble.

I've read all of your responses several times and will keep doing so. Thanks again x

 

[theunknown]

I agree with others on here - it's so hard to get rid of a parent's things and sell their property when you feel they still have 'ownership' of it. In the end you have to be a bit ruthless. I have mum's stuff in my house, but it tends to relate to enabling me to learn more about her as a person. I had to sell her house (we pay top-up fees) and, from what others have posted, I'm assuming the care home fees will soon go up by quite a bit. My mum's final house was small, but was stuffed with things. If your relative has reached a place where they will never go back to their own home then they won't understand what's happened/is happening to their property, so deal with the situation in a way that makes you feel least guilty.

 

[looviloo]

It doesn't get any easier, does it?

The 'for sale' sign went up on dad's house today. I nearly cried when I saw it. I had asked them to delay putting the sign up, because I worry about someone seeing it who might tell dad... but it looks like the wires got crossed with the estate agent. Ho hum.

I saw dad this afternoon and the conversation went back to the house again. So rather than steer away from it, I suggested it was time to think about what to do... he freely admits it needs someone living in it, that it'll be deteriorating etc. He says that himself with no suggestion from me. But (and this is where the dementia comes in) the logical conclusion/decision making just isn't there, because in the next breath he's talking about moving back. And goes on to describe various items tucked in drawers or cupboards (which aren't in reality there anymore). And then says he wants to visit the house. So I just steer the conversation to something 'easier' and come away feeling lost and frustrated.

It's now affecting my mood - I'm gloomy, and snappy, and extremely stressed. I'm anxious that someone will tell dad his house is on the market. I've been rehearsing in my head what I would say if that happened, when actually what I'd probably do is feel like crying. I'm tired of being strong, of being in this horrible position. And everything I'm doing is for the right reasons, yet I continue to feel like a naughty girl, sneaking around behind her father's back!!! Aargh!

Sorry, I needed to vent. It's just so hard...

 

[Canadian Joanne]

When your dad talks about visiting the house, why don't you agree and pick a day "next week"? I did this with my mother when she said she wanted to visit her parents - who both died in 1970. I would say "Okay but let's go the day after tomorrow because I have work/ appointment/ errands to run" etc. This would comfort her for a while. I used this over and over and over again.

 

[Chemmy]

I cleared my mum's house in 2005. She died in 2012 and I finally was able to dispose of her diaries just last week. It is hard.

I hope when we downsize ourselves in a couple of years, I can be ruthless with all my own surplus stuff.

 

[looviloo]

Many thanks for your comments . I've calmed down a bit now, but every time I think of the house (which I grew up in) my stomach turns over. I guess I'm going through a grieving process too, and this isn't easy when I have to tell untruths to dad to keep him from being distressed.

Canadian Joanne, I've become very good at putting things off, when dad asks for something... sometimes it works, sometimes not. I just hope that the memory fades enough he'll stop asking :-/.

Chemmy, I've told my teenage daughter that we'll move after she leaves home, and downsize. Clear out the clutter. I'm pretty good at keeping my own cupboards clear anyway, I just wish my parents had done the same! I have a fear of 'stuff' and think that stems from childhood...

 

[Pinkys]

Having been through this twice, my Mum's flat and my MiL's house, both while they were alone, I absolutely agree, Looviloo. I have promised myself and my daughter that I will do the dirty work before I need to, I.e. Clear the clutter, allocate things to people if that is what is needed, and generally spare her as much as possible of the kind of grief that has been on my and my husband's shoulders for so long.

Having said that, I know that things will seem different in the future and as soon as I start to lose it, assuming I do, I will never agree that now is the right time to sell the house and move...So, the plan is, to do it well before we need to. We talk about how we could sell up and move to a flat in a big city, maybe, while we are fit enough to see it as an adventure.

 

[Chemmy]

As the DIL, and thus a little bit more detached, I supervised the clearing of my MILs house when she moved into the CH in 2014, as I knew it was something her daughters were dreading and they would take forever, agonising over each little item.

First I sorted everything out into three categories, putting things into separate cupboards or rooms

Tip /recycling centre
Charity shop (and be honest, is someone really going to pay for that bit of tat?)
Keepsakes. (I assigned each of them a cupboard)

Then I asked them to cast their eye over my decisions and move things to a more appropriate category if necessary. That really seemed to work out just fine

The items were taken to the tip or charity shop ASAP after that because it becomes much easier once you have made a proper start.

If in doubt about the keepsakes, put them in a box for now and review them later. But don't do as I did with my mums stuff and keep it 'for your children when they get a house of their own.' Trust me, they'll prefer to go to IKEA.

 

[looviloo]

Pinkys, I think it's a good idea of yours to clear things sooner rather than later... seeing the future as an adventure is a great incentive . We also talk about options. Or should I say dream about options!

Chemmy, I wish I'd had you to help me out about 6 months ago!!! I went through a similar process to you but a combination of emotional attachment and the sheer amount of stuff made it hard going. In the end I had a house clearance and we raised some money for dad by auctioning things off. Lots has gone to charity too. And I have now got various boxes and cupboards full in my own home... :-/.

We had another viewing at the house today, the most positive so far. Fingers crossed the house sells quickly, I really want it to be loved and looked after, with a new family to enjoy it .