But oh those lonely nights .........

LadyA

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Oct 19, 2009
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Ireland
Well, I'm quite a bit younger than a lot of you - and when I was a child, we lived for a while in the country in an ancient rented farmhouse which had no plumbing at all. The "loo" was a bucket in a shed out in the yard, and we got our water in a (different!:D ) bucket from a stream in a neighbouring field! I remember going with my dad to get buckets of water. Baths were taken by mum heating big pots of water on the cooker and filling a tin bath in front of the fire. The place had a cobblestone yard that we used to play in in front of the house, and an orchard at the back. One of my brothers learned to walk there, and he developed such a peculiar, rolling gait that my parents took him to be x-rayed as the doctors thought he had congenital hip dislocation that had been missed when he was born! But no- they concluded it was from learning to walk on the cobblestones! He's in his early 50s now and still has a bit of a John Wayne roll! :D
 

Scarlett123

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Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
My mum always told me about public baths, these explanations make it much clearer.

She grew up in the Brick Lane area of a Jewish father (her mother was the servant so a bit of a scandal in those days), we weren't told she was our gran until we were about 10 in late 70s and even then we weren't to tell people. we had to be told as we couldn't work out how Aunty fitted into the family when mum always told us in detail about everyone else.

I know, or rather knew, Brick Lane very well, and my Mum was Jewish. Goodness, I can imagine the scandal! :eek: When my Mum met my Dad, in 1939, her parents were very unusual, in that they accepted my Dad immediately, even though he wasn't Jewish. He did try to change his faith but it wasn't possible, once he'd been called up for WW2.

In the Brick Lane area, you would find special public baths, for Jewish brides. The religion deemed that on the night before her wedding, the chaste girl had to go down steps that led into the water, so that she was completely immersed, and would be as pure as possible for her bridegroom.

The custom wasn't adhered to so strictly by the time of WW2, and my Mum said there was no way she was messing her hair up anyway, which was considered very risqué by her aunts! My Grandparents married on Christmas Day, 1907, and as my Grandpa was the eldest of 17 (no tv in those days ;)), they always had a party with their numerous relatives, with a Christmas tree etc, even though they were Jewish.

One of Mum's older favourite cousins, who married out of the faith, was considered dead by her parents, and her name was never ever mentioned again. So sad. Going back to my Grandpa, who told me numerous stories of the old days, his mother came from The Netherlands, on the onion boat, as part of a pogrom, along with all her family, including 3 sisters of similar age.

And the 4 sisters, between them, had 64 live births!!!! Grandpa said his Mum always had 3 babies at a time - one in her arms, one holding her skirt, and one in her belly! The entire family lived in 2 rooms, above a synagogue in Petticoat Lane, having moved from a "court" in Whitechapel.

The court consisted of 4 tenement buildings, in a square, housing goodness knows how many dozens of people, and the water stand pipe was turned on for just an hour a day. Grandma Elizabeth taught all her daughters and grand-daughters how to make a divine dish called Dutch Apple Cake, and Mum made this regularly, and even typing about it, I can smell the cinnamon!

The East End has always been a melting pot of nationalities and immigrants, and when I researched John's family tree, we found that one of his mother's grandmothers, came over to Spitalfields with the Hugenouts, and was a lace maker. I love family history, and have 2 albums, called "Roots One and Two", with photos and birth, marriage and death certificates, some original, some copies, for mine and John's ancestors.

I even have a (think this is the right spelling) Dagguerotype photo of my Grandpa's Grandpa, born nearly 200 years ago. Fortunately, my Mum wrote the 3 "musts" on the back of all her photos - who, when and where. I can remember "sitting on my Grandpa's knee", he died the year I met John, and he can remember "sitting on his Grandpa's knee", so this was as far back as I wanted to go, cos I considered that tangible knowledge.

Further back just seemed like names and dates, though I do have some evidence of ancestors born in the late 1700s, so I've encompassed 5 different centuries.

Sorry, I do ramble on, don't I!
 

Scarlett123

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Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
I also remember going to the public baths in Tottenham. People these days just don't know how lucky they are.
We also had an outside toilet and I had nightmares using it thinking a rat would come up the toilet !!!

I remember watching a TV programme about the 1930s, when the London County Council set about building Dagenham. There was a lady on the programme who related that this is precisely what happened to her child! :eek:

When you think about it, we're not all 135 years old, are we, and yet we're relating Social History, so different to how people live today.
 

Scarlett123

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Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
We also had an outside toilet-with torn up newspaper for loo roll and no hand wash basin:eek: However, we did progress to Bronco toilet tissue when I was about 5. If you needed the toilet in the middle of the night it was the bed pan"

Torn up newspaper? We were much posher. Living in London, we had 4 telephone directories, A-D, E-K, L-R and S-Z, and we used those. :D But when visitors came, out would come the Roll Of Izal (always spoken about in hushed tones), which was so damned hard that I'm surprised we didn't get cut bums!

You had a bed pan? We had "the po". Everyone had a po under their bed (rhymes with "toe"), and it was considered quite normal for everyone to troop downstairs with their po in the morning. I can't remember anyone washing their hands. :eek:

Who had wash hand basins in outside loos? Or inside? We only had a sink (cold water only) in the scullery, and one somewhere else. Yet we've all survived.:)
 

Scarlett123

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
Well, I'm quite a bit younger than a lot of you - and when I was a child, we lived for a while in the country in an ancient rented farmhouse which had no plumbing at all. The "loo" was a bucket in a shed out in the yard, and we got our water in a (different!:D ) bucket from a stream in a neighbouring field!

Soooooooooooo relieved you were a 2 bucket family. :D:D:D
 

LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
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Ireland
If you are interested in social history and how things were in the old days, I'm reading a book called "Fever " by Mary Beth Keane, which is a novel telling the story of the case of Mary Mallon, "Typhoid Mary". She was apparently a healthy carrier of Typhoid, working as a cook in early 20th century New York. She never remembered having the disease herself (but had come over from Ireland in the late 1800s, when people here were still dying like flies from the aftermath of the famine.) It's absolutely fascinating, the way the author describes the appalling filth of the streets of New York at the time, so matter of factly - no one thought anything of it. Apart from the story of Mary, it's an interesting read.
 

jugglingmum

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Jan 5, 2014
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Chester
Sorry, I do ramble on, don't I!

Well I found that fascinating. Maybe I need to see what mum can remember. When I cleared her house I did find a family tree, which I've carefully put to one side, and she was in touch with her half sisters and their children (half sisters were the same age as her mum, her nephew was the same age as her). Sadly as her house was so 'chaotic' I didn't manage to recover much.

I know that her father (a builder) and his wife came over in a Pogrom, and his wife legally adopted mum and her sister - she was one of I think 4 children from the relationship between her father and mother - although only 2 survived. There was an older sister and a younger brother she told me. She went to synagogue whilst her mother was still in favour so maybe not as big a scandal as we would think - it has never fully made sense to me.

My grandpa on my father's side was one of 13 (from the Barndon/Kilmeen area of Co Cork). Such a short no of generations from many children to a few.
 

Scarlett123

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Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
My grandpa on my father's side was one of 13 (from the Barndon/Kilmeen area of Co Cork). Such a short no of generations from many children to a few.

It seems procreation was the order of the day, whether you wore a Star of David, or a cross. ;) About 12 years ago, when John was just "forgetful", I traced, through Genes Reunited, several descendants of John's greatgrandmother, and we had some wonderful reunions, in a village in Oxford.

And though we don't meet up any more, as the 75 - 80 year olds are now approaching, or in their 90s (just had to correct this, as I first typed "in their nighties"!!!!), we stay in touch, via phone.

John's GGM was sent to live, in disgrace, with her sister, as she was "with child", and no wedding ring. Then she dallied with a man in the village and when she became pregnant again, this man married her, and just took on John's grandfather as his own - there was no formal adoption then. That's why John's grandfather had one surname (his mother's) on his birth certificate, and another (his step-father's) on his death certificate.

I learnt that it was the custom then, for an illegitimate child to be given their real father's surname as their middle name. That way, if Daddy eventually married Mummy, they merely dropped Mummy's surname. The internet has made genealogy so much easier. My best "find" was when I discovered school records, from the Jewish Free School in Whitechapel, of 1887, and my Grandpa's name was on the register!

Further delving unearthed the teacher's report for one year and Grandpa did very well and was "mentioned in dispatches". :) Each year was called a "standard". He started when he was 6, and left at 12, which was the Sixth Standard, and then went to work.

After a mere 6 years of education, he had the most beautiful handwriting, could write eloquently, with perfect spelling, and his mental arithmetic was excellent. When I was a child, he was considered the "scribe" for his neighbours, and if anyone needed a letter to be written To The Authorities, he would do it.

I've just thought, that perhaps where I get my love of completing forms from. :D
 

LadyA

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Oct 19, 2009
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Ireland
The primary school classes here (also until age about 12, when you move to secondary school) used to be called standards too!
 

LadyA

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Oct 19, 2009
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Ireland
These histories are so interesting. More please. Wish I had some delving into mine when my parents were alive.

I wish I knew more about mine too! I only know vague stuff. I know one grandmother was a milliner, and there was a lacemaker somewhere on the other side, and a couple of my great uncles were Master Tailors, and one a Graphic Designer - he designed the label of the old Mateus Rose bottles of wine, apparently!
 

Sasky

Registered User
Jan 29, 2014
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Ashford, Kent
My dad was a cinema manager, which meant my Mum and Dad went regularly to film previews, Like the carry on films. My Mum and Dad went to the film preview of the Young Ones and they got to meet Cliff Richard (photo attached), one of my treasured photos. As a young child I met Tommy Cooper
ImageUploadedByTalking Point1456670134.730755.jpg

Got loads more to tell you all
 

Scarlett123

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Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
Oh what a super photo!!!! When I show people my "Roots" albums, lots of them say that they have a pile of photos at home, and could I help them organise them. But unless they have a clue as to who the person in the photo actually is, it's impossible.

I might see a photo of a white-haired lady with glasses. She could be an aunt, a neighbour, or just someone who walked in front of the camera at the wrong moment! So, any of you who have old photos, and know who the subjects are, make sure you write "who, when and where" on the back, because future generations, who may be interested in genealogy, won't have a clue!

Getting myself psyched up for tomorrow. :eek: I'll be playing the ukulele, and singing 43 songs. :eek::eek::eek: This is at the Care Home of the sister of one of the choir members. I don't have any words, or music, just titles of songs, that have minimal chords, as I can't manage that many. ;)

Everyone thinks I've got loads of confidence, but it's all a mask. It's just that I feel so good when I'm doing it, cos I know it's making the residents feel happy, joining in all the songs of their youth. And I know John would be proud of me. :)
 

truth24

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Oct 13, 2013
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North Somerset
43 songs, Scarlett! You'll have no voice left. We visited the Mateus Palace when we cruised the Douro in Nov, LadyA, and learned the history of Mateus Rose. The favmily sold it to one of the big wineries many years ago and the gorgeous house is still a family home and also used as a conference centre. The latest rose is quite drinkable.
 

Scarlett123

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
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Essex
I've discovered the mystery of isinglass. :) There are 2 different things with the same name:

The original isinglass (first OED cite 1545) is "a firm whitish semitransparent substance (being a comparatively pure form of gelatin) obtained from the sounds or air-bladders of some fresh-water fishes, esp. the sturgeon; used in cookery for making jellies, etc., also for clarifying liquors, in the manufacture of glue, and for other purposes." The word may be “a corruption or imperfect imitation of an obsolete Dutch huisenblas (Kilian huysenblase, huysblas), German hausenblase isinglass, lit. ‘sturgeon's bladder.’”

Two centuries later, the second sense of isinglass appears: “A name given to mica, from its resembling in appearance some kinds of isinglass.”


Apparently the second sort of isinglass was flexible, and therefore it could be rolled, as in : with isinglass curtains you can roll right down, in case there's a change in the weather

PS - so glad I found that out, cos I had visions of fish bladders on the surrey with the fringe on top!!!!