Ok, so I am worrying about something that's not happened yet but wanted to see if anyone has felt like this. I have found a lovely ch for my mum, she is there on respite however I want to make it permanent. ch was chosen as it looks very spacious, more like a hotel, lovely rooms to sit in. Mum thinks it's only for respite and I feel she has settled in better with the hotel feel about it as she always tells me she never wants to go in a ch. I've looked at some lovely places, slightly cheaper that do have a ch homely feel but I feel she would not settle at this point ( plus they have waiting lists, which I have added her on to ) doctor has said she doesn't have capacity to make decisions regarding her safety and should stay in ch. I'm meeting SS this week to see what they feel and if they can support for the first 12 weeks. If I sell her house I am hoping for 5 years of care, I'm worried what will happen if she outlives the money? I've spoken to her doctor who said go with the plan, mums COPD has worried me more than her dementia recently. Mum has had constant exacerbations since November, gets out of breath just walking to the car or getting dressed. Anyone else have these worries?
Worries that money for private care will run out
- Thread starter MimoMilo
- Start date
Thanks, I feel I just needed to hear it's good to go with the plan. It's such a huge weight on my shoulders to decide on the care and finances of another human being. Keep telling myself our roles have changed now and I must keep her safe and keep myself well.
Take care x
If and when your Mum goes below £23,250, the SS should take over at least part funding. They have a duty of finding at least one home within their budget that meets her needs. Only if they can't will they have to up their payments. There is no guarantee it will be your Mum's home. If they find a cheaper one and you cannot convince them that moving her would be detrimental for her, she will be moved.
I understand what you are saying about the hotel atmosphere but that's not a criteria for SS. In fact, what's important is the quality of care. A lot of homes that are a bit scruffy round the edges give excellent care, whereas some homes that look beautiful won't. So don't be swayed too much by it! But if you're fine with the fact she might be moved in five year's time, go for it. She might have declined so much that she might not realise or care anymore, or her needs might have changed so that she has to be moved anyway.
I understand what you are saying about the hotel atmosphere but that's not a criteria for SS. In fact, what's important is the quality of care. A lot of homes that are a bit scruffy round the edges give excellent care, whereas some homes that look beautiful won't. So don't be swayed too much by it! But if you're fine with the fact she might be moved in five year's time, go for it. She might have declined so much that she might not realise or care anymore, or her needs might have changed so that she has to be moved anyway.
When my OH was looking for a care home for his mum, he was told by the homes that as long as she had money to fund a few years when she moved in, they wouldn't ask her to move out if it ran out and she became LPA funded. Five years seems like a decent amount of time - I'd have a quiet word with the home and see if they can reassure you.
Thanks, your points are really great, who knows how her illness will be in 5 years, it's true, the ch might not be suitable then x
My mum's care home offered the same deal; after 3 years if her savings ran out they would accept LA rate so she would never need to move for financial reasons.
The home had 3 completely separate sections so we knew that even if her needs increased they would have been able to accommodate her.
If you are sorted for 5 years I honestly wouldn't worry too much now.
I understand it is a lot of work but have you considered renting out your Mum's house to generate income and make the money last a little longer?
Yes, had the house valued and a rough estimate of the rental value. The monthly rent + pension will not cover the fees. Plus I live so far away I would need the agent to oversee everything at a cost and I presume tax would be paid on the rental income. If I could, I would have rather gone down the rental route. If mum had more savings then it might have been an option. If we rented, we would be living hand to mouth and I would be constantly worried. The only option for us is to sell up. I appreciate your thoughts, such a hard start to the year, summers on the way, hopefully bringing the sunshine x
Have you considered a Local Authority Deferred Payment scheme.
I am not up to date with the current schemes but I'm sure that, if you Google, you'll get an idea or alternatively one of our more up to date members will help. I went down this route for Mum and it was very useful given that it took 2 years to sell Mum's place.
I presume that you have a LPA for Finance and legal in place ( and Health and Welfare too) if not this should be your first starting place.
Also, I hope you will be aplying for ( if not already receiving) Attendance Allowance.
I am not up to date with the current schemes but I'm sure that, if you Google, you'll get an idea or alternatively one of our more up to date members will help. I went down this route for Mum and it was very useful given that it took 2 years to sell Mum's place.
I presume that you have a LPA for Finance and legal in place ( and Health and Welfare too) if not this should be your first starting place.
Also, I hope you will be aplying for ( if not already receiving) Attendance Allowance.
If your Mum has less than £23,250 in savings then the LA are obliged to offer you a Deferred Payment Agreement. You may also get one if her savings are higher but each LA is different.
The LA pay the fees, this can be all of it or whatever you agree. Then on death the debt is repaid. This can be from the sale of the house or by any other means. So say your Mum (sorry to be brutal) dies in the first couple of years you may be able to keep the house if you wanted to. Conversely if, which I hope is the case
, your Mum lives beyond the 5 years you will still be in a position to pay the fees and the house will hopefully be worth more.A DPA is not for everyone and it is recommended to get financial advice as there are set up charges and interest to be paid (unless you are lucky and have an LA like mine that do neither).
Yes you would have to fund the agent but that can come out of the rental and your Mum may be liable to some tax depending on any other income but self assessment tax returns are not difficult.
Whatever you decide if your Mum does have savings of less than £23,250 the LA give you a 12 week disregard on the property where they pay the CH minus pensions/benfits,. This is to give you time to sell the house or enter into a DPA.
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If your Mum has less than £23,250 in savings then the LA are obliged to offer you a Deferred Payment Agreement. You may also get one if her savings are higher but each LA is different.
The LA pay the fees, this can be all of it or whatever you agree. Then on death the debt is repaid. This can be from the sale of the house or by any other means. So say your Mum (sorry to be brutal) dies in the first couple of years you may be able to keep the house if you wanted to. Conversely if, which I hope is the case
A DPA is not for everyone and it is recommended to get financial advice as there are set up charges and interest to be paid (unless you are lucky and have an LA like mine that do neither).
Yes you would have to fund the agent but that can come out of the rental and your Mum may be liable to some tax depending on any other income but self assessment tax returns are not difficult.
Whatever you decide if your Mum does have savings of less than £23,250 the LA give you a 12 week disregard on the property where they pay the CH minus pensions/benfits,. This is to give you time to sell the house or enter into a DPA.
Thanks all so much for the information and suggestions. We have attendance allowance however I am in the process of applying for the higher rate as mum is unsafe with the night wandering. My sister and me have joint POA both finance and welfare ( I presume the welfare one comes in to play now a doctor has said she does not have capacity).
The deferred payment sounds good. I have read up on this a bit. The CH also offered a deferred payment as long as I can prove a solicitor has been instructed and the house is up for sale. I presume the interest will be a lot higher, I will find out this week. With the LA DPS I am worried mum will loose her pension and attendance allowance? Ideally I want to sell her property,invest some maybe ? And pay her fees out of her money, letting her have her pension to continue with a good quality of life eg , days out, theatre etc whilst she still can.
I have read up on people having a DPS and not settling the bill until the person passes. I feel I would want to settle up as soon as possible. Mums house was valued quite a bit more than what I expected. I would not want to worry about the market taking a down turn etc. if I did go the DPS route, would the LA pay all the bill or just the normal rate say £500 pw and expect the rest to be made up or would it just be seen as a loan for the whole amount?
Thanks everyone x
With an LA Deferred Payment Agreement the LA will value the house and come to an agreement with you on that value. It does not have to be exact. They then take off 10% and £14,250 and you are left with a total. Again in consultation with you they guess how long your Mum will live and decide how long the money will last in the CH you have chosen. They will then tell you how much per week they will "lend" you. The value of the house and the amount is reassessed every year just to make sure things are going to plan. They will only lend you up to the agreed amount. If your Mum lives longer than expected you will be in the same position as if she had sold the house and had run out of funds.
A DPA will not affect your Mum's pension/benefits. She will still be a self funder and the LA rate does not come into it.
It is normal that any pension/benefits will be used towards the CH costs along with any rental money (minus all the related expenses) meaning that the LA lend less money each week which means it lasts longer but each one is different and open to discussion. My LA were quite willing to fund the whole amount of the CH which would mean the money running out in around 5 years. I opted for them to fund around half to make sure it lasts longer. The rest is made up by Pensions/benefits and family top ups.
A DPA is designed to last the lifetime of the person so the debt is not payable till death or, if you decide that the rental side is just too much hassle, you decide to sell. You can terminate it at any time and then have 90 days (longer with agreement) to repay.
I thought about the rental option but like you I was not local and would have had to pay a agent to manage the tenancy. Mum's house was in a reasonable state but a lot of things were quite old (like the boiler) and I felt it was quite likely that we would have had to spend a fair amount on maintenance/repairs/redecoration. It wasn't in an area where prices were going up dramatically so I felt in the end that we were better off selling rather than having the ongoing hassle.
I found this when I googled Local Authority Deferred Payment Schemes :- http://www.local.gov.uk/care-support-reform/-/journal_content/56/10180/6522542/ARTICLE[/URL it give up to date information regarding DP schemes interest rates.
Thanks Nitram.....it's a well known fact that technology and I are poles apart!! I was watching a film whilst babysitting tonight, paused it and totally lost it into the ether, only for daughter to return, say " I told you to do this or that" and there it was ...too late, I went home!!
I was watching a film whilst babysitting tonight, paused it and totally lost it into the ether, only for daughter to return, say " I told you to do this or that" and there it was ...too late, I went home!!Thanks for all the information. I too feel the best way forward for me is to sell the house. Mums house will need a lot of maintaining and to be honest, after the calls in the night of my mum going wandering I feel I need 6 months without any calls from tennants etc, need to get back to my own person! Food for thought though. The rental option would have been good a few years ago if mum went to assisted accommodation ( which she refused) x
Best wishes everyone x
Best wishes everyone x
