DWP recovery from estates - Help please panicking!

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,081
0
Bury
if you Google dwp asking value of deceased estate the third hit is a bunch of posts from the MSE forum indicating that the DWP sometimes go back years, the first poster obtained a spreadsheet on request. There is also a post saying that a solicitor applying for probate asked for 3 months of bank statements as it was normal practice to send these to the DWP.

My wife died 2 years ago the 'tell us once' caused the DWP to take pension over payment (no AA as she was CHC) out of her closed bank account and send me a letter thanking me for the payment followed by another letter saying her account was now clear. HMRC also paid a refund claimed just before her death into the closed account, a private pension was bounced, the bank said this was standard practice. All this occurred before probate application.
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
Thanks, it was just the icing on the cake after bad news with probate on Thursday with the week from hell at work to walk it to find this rather demanding letter. Last thing I needed and like you say I have to wait all weekend, I just needed to get facts right, if she has for whatever reason been overpaid her £2 per week PC that's no big deal the fact it was so little reflects I had told them her high capital of £30K ish.

I just panicked and was at a low tonight when I got in, thank you for keeping me sane though I probably won't sleep well at least I know they only could have recompense on the small amount of PC if I am getting this right.

Thanks Jennifer x and everyone else really helpful.
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,064
0
Salford
The annoying thing is they won't tell you the facts, they can put a stop to sorting out the will then you find out the amounts involved is peanuts. If they put their cards on the table and said we think this person may have been overpaid £500 for reason X then you know where you stand, instead they run the whole procedure for £50 that they do for £50,000. I'm sure all the peanut amounts they get back do add up and they do have a responsibility to the taxpayer to collect them in but some sense of perspective would help. Unless they think some major fraud is involved how much would it help if they just said "we think the estate may owe us £750 or thereabouts" then we can all get on with our lives with a bit less stress.
K
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
instead they run the whole procedure for £50 that they do for £50,000

I think I've heard on this forum that the amount can be as little as £5. The truth is, though, these letters are computer generated and as such cost the paper they are printed on, the ink plus mailing costs. It's miniscule. Pennies probably, even counting the computing costs. Which is not to say that I'm not saddened that they take this approach. But I understand why they do.

I particularly note Gwen's point that she received a stern letter pointing out that DWP had underpaid AA. It's SOP.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
I think whoever designed the letter templates for councils has a lot to answer for. My OT sent me the letter she was about to send to our landlord about the grab rail installation. It was cold and abrupt and didn't give any explanation as to why it was needed, plus almost threatened the landlord if he didn't sign. I wouldn't have wanted to receive it so I completely rewrote it for her. They really don't think about tone.
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
Kevinl you're absolutley right, if they had written in plain English saying, we understand your Mum received PC, we just need to check we paid her right and that she might be overpaid, instead of threatening, do not distribute the assets of they estate they may be needed ...
Anyhow update, I phoned today, they said I just needed to fill in the form because probate automatically send it off and they compare the capital with what they have compared to the estate, obviously the house is in there and they don't know the breakdown and that's what they want.
Talk about put the fear of God in you.
 

2197alexandra

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
355
0
Sileby
Not had chance to read all the thread but I received a letter regarding dad's council tax and they wanted to know the benefactors of the will and how much they are getting. I have told them to sod off got nothing to do with them. But why have they asked???
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,081
0
Bury
"I received a letter regarding dad's council tax and they wanted to know the benefactors of the will and how much they are getting. I have told them to sod off got nothing to do with them. But why have they asked???"

Was your Dad in receipt of council tax relief?

Part of the eligibility for this depends on capital assets, I think the limit is £16000, the property the tax is levied on is not included.

If he was in receipt of relief they are asking to check his assets at death and maybe try to reclaim funds from the beneficiaries. Note that insurance policies that pay out at death are not included.
 

2197alexandra

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
355
0
Sileby
Dad was exempt under the server mental incapacity rule. So assets shouldn't of come into it should it. He wasn't on any benefits he just claimed aa as that is all he was entitled to. Any council tax due on the property since his death should come out of his estate surely which there is ample funds for this to be paid. It just doesn't suit me to tell them his will details. They can have whatever they think is owed from the estate prior to it being distributed to the benefactors.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,081
0
Bury
"Dad was exempt under the server mental incapacity rule. So assets shouldn't of come into it should it."

And before the SMI disregard?

If he received SMI disregard but never received any means tested council tax reduction I would reply to the council stating that and ask why they therefore require details of the size and distribution of his estate.

The most likely thing to have happened is that his council tax relief was incorrectly classified.
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,849
0
55
Wigan, Lancs
Gillybean, this is quite common. The DWP see the grant of probate which gives the gross and net values of the estate. This can include property, or insurance policies that only paid out on death, so may be more than the declared capital for the purposes of benefit claims. The DWP will want to check that your mum's capital was correctly assessed.

This can take some weeks, and don't be surprised if you receive a letter saying you haven't sent the information when you have. They seem to be a bit behind on dealing with post at the moment.
 

CLAIREDAY

Account on hold
Apr 22, 2015
48
0
About 18 months after my grandparents died the Inland Revenue came back to my father wanting £200 which they said was due from my grandfather.
My father only got 25% of the value of the estate and his sister got 25% so they offered £100.
The other 2 offspring were abroad at the time and my father said they would have to deal with them for the other half.
The Inland Revenue kept on sending letters saying my father and his sister would have to pay the full £200 and recover £100 from the other beneficiaries.
My father paid his share and his sister paid her share and they just said the Inland Revenue would have to deal with the other beneficiaries in relation to their portion.
Legal Action was threatened but nothing ever happened.
I don't know if the £100 was recovered or written off.

Claire
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
I seem to remember there being a mix up after Dad died too, I remember I paid them back £350,they said I never informed them, then weeks later I found a letter stating 'we are sorry to hear....' so I was right after all. I didn't have the energy to pursue at that point.

I don't think they assessed her for a long time, and I think they have to ask you for capital details at intervals. The last letter I had states her capital was £5k less that on her death, nor surprising seen as she was in hosp/CH for the last 7 months but I can see this being queried and I can imagine a round of trips to the bank for statements etc and they'll be accusing me of not letting them know etc. Something I can do without at the moment.

I think the money she had (at one point £1.62/week) was more trouble than it was worth and wished we had never claimed it.
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
Just looking at Mum's statements and I can see that even though I informed them they continued to pay her PC of £1.62 per week whilst in hosp and the CH, even though I have a record I spoke to someone in Dundee back in August last year they stopped AA about that time too. I wonder if this is because i was pension savings credit? Anyhow that could be what the overpayment is...
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
That could be it. Mind you the time in hospital - she should still get pension credit for that period. Moving into a carehome, though, makes the value of her home be counted as capital.
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
That could be it. Mind you the time in hospital - she should still get pension credit for that period. Moving into a care home, though, makes the value of her home be counted as capital.

I did let the them know when she moved into the CH, an also the fact she was fully health funded on CHC.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
I realise that you told them but it wouldn't be the first time they hadn't taken the appropriate action. The good news is, they stopped her AA. And I say that is good news because it shows you did contact them: if they didn't take all the correct actions then it wasn't because you didn't inform them, and that means at most we are talking about paying back the possibly overpaid PC rather than any penalties.
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
I really don't mind paying back if they are owed money, that's not the problem, it's the not knowing how long, how much scenario.

To make matters worse I think I'll have to go through this whole thing again when I apply for my fathers probate :confused: which should have been done 5 years ago so that's going to be messy :(
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
I just thought I would update on this, after sending the form back on the Monday after I received it on the Friday back on 15 May I got another letter today.
More or less the same thing stating do not distribute the estate as there has been an over payment, doesn't say why or how much.
So I phoned the helpline, 15 mins later spoke to someone who said that when someone goes into a CH it begins a new Assessed Income Period. So we are looking at the time from admittance to CH. I did say that I had informed them as AA stopped and they said that they could see that I have infored them. I now have to wait for 3 more weeks until they get the figures from DWP. So much for getting a response in 20 days!

Why oh why then, knowing the change, don't they stop payment at that point, knowing they'll be an over payment. It's mad.

I have come to the conclusion that it's just not worth the stress nor hassle in claiming this benefit, in their situation, not saying it doesn't work for others but he amount of pointless post I got, along with denials they hadn't received info, was a common problem I had.
 

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