Registering POA with banks

[Petrina]

Re. debit cards

I have one on Dad's main current a/c. It says "[my name] attorney for [Dad's name]". I went into the bank and to my surprise, a member of staff typed the words into the computer there and then to ensure they'd fit on the card. I received the card by first class post the next day.

So if a bank insists your loved one has a card, try getting it put in your name.

 

[Mrs Mollon]

I had little trouble with about ten financial institutions by ringing their head office and speaking to the group who deal with POAs and asking what info they required. I then sent the info (copy of POA and the stuff they requested) to them, they registered it so their branches could access it, returned the POA with a letter stating it was registered. I then went to those local branches who held the accounts and experienced few problems. I found that with those difficult counter staff who were inexperienced, just asking for the manager did the trick. The letter saying it was registered was invaluable.

The bank where my Wife had her main accounts NW took copies of our certified copy of the POA for my two sons who are also attorneys, annotated each one so that they could each register with their local branches. At times it was irritating and time consuming but I found then that making an appointment with a branch beforehand useful.
One point to mention is that I used a specialist Will writer to do the POA (recommended by my local Alzheimer's branch) as she was able to certify that my wife understood what was happening. The certifier although a JP etc certified the copy of the POA but is not a Solicitor and I found that when I came to use the POA to deal with shares it was not recognised. Legally only a solicitor or a stockbroker can certify a copy of a POA .

 

[nitram]

"Legally only a solicitor or a stockbroker can certify a copy of a POA ."

Or a donor who retains capapcity.

Another reason alongside checking for any typos to register an LPA as soon a it is made.

 

[sunny beach hut]

I had the same problem last year, although only with one of the banks I registered with for mum's PoA. Try to speak to just one member of staff each time and remember to get their name. If this isn't possible ask for the person's name each time, it's amazing how people try a little harder when you can refer back to them!

The effort is well worth it though. I found it helped to ask the bank why they were being so unhelpful to a person who was vulnerable.... sure this will help but wanted to sympathise. Take care

I've had Lasting Power of Attorney for my mum registered with the Office for Public Guardian since last summer.

Since then, I've been slowly trying to register it with the banks that mum uses so that I can help her with her finances. Unfortunately, the bureaucracy related to getting it registered is driving me mad! Multiple trips to the branch, being required to produce the same documents on multiple occasions and then it being registered incorrectly at the end of it all.

Has anyone else found this? I'm starting to think it's something I'm doing wrong!!

I have already made a formal complaint to one bank and will be doing so with another. That said, it's hard to find the energy to make formal complaints on top of all the caring responsibilities and coping with bureaucracy.

 

[Munnery]

My relative (for whom I have power of attorney) was sectioned only a couple of months after entering a care home. She had so many accounts and investments with around a dozen banks/ financial institutions - much more than I realised when she asked me to be POA. I felt overwhelmed by it all. Luckily my relative had the forethought to order enough certified copies of the POA

Following the sectioning I sent out POA copies to all them, plus various pension providers. I was really surprised that not one of them queried anything and I haven't experienced any problems at all. Judging by the problems other TP'ers have encountered, I count myself very lucky indeed.

 

[daisydi]

Enduring Power of Attorney HELP

Hi can anyone help me please. After my elder sister was killed in 2002 my mum made me Power of Attorney in 2003. I have another sister who is older than me but my mum didnt like her husband so did not include her. My mum has now gone into residential care and although I am joint account holder on a couple of her bank accounts I have tried to register a change of address to my address so her post doesnt go to her old house and I sent copies of her POA to various institutions to get her address changed but it is proving to be very difficult as the original is with her old solicitor who will not release it to me. I have 2 questions:-

Can I write a letter on my mum's behalf and get her to sign it requesting that the original POA is sent to me and then I can get it certified for whoever asks? or

My sister who is now divorced wants us to do another one including her.

Will my mum be able to draw up another POA even though she was taken into care under the Mental Capacity Act to include my sister and although she will physically be able to sign a letter would that be acceptable?

This is a complete minefield for me. I'm not sure if she is deemed to have Mental Capacity or not. Does anyone have any experience of this situation?

 

[Katrine]

Hi Daisy. Some thoughts.

Your POA must be the older type called Enduring Power of Attorney. For this, you the Attorney are required to formally register your POA once the donor (your mum) has, or is beginning to, lose mental capacity. See this link: https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

However, potentially you and your sister want to have joint and several POA, which would mean your mum would have to grant a new Lasting Power of Attorney (these have to be registered from the start) https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties.

She could still grant POA provided that she understands in the moment what she is doing.

Do you think she would want your sister to be her Attorney? Perhaps you should be talking to her about it? She is the one who must agree to that change, if she has capacity to do so.

I can also foresee there being a possible delay between one and the other, but you'd have to check with the Office of the Public Guardian about those sorts of transitions from EPA to LPA; it might be more straightforward than I think.

Has the solicitor explained why s/he won't release the original? If you choose to register your existing EPA you can enclose a certified copy but in our experience they will only accept this if the original is lost. We had to get the original EPA document from MIL's solicitor; OPG refused to register the POA without the original.

Do you think the solicitor has lost the original? Perhaps if they have no good excuse you could start by getting advice from OPG and take it from there? Knowing that you mean business might be enough to get the solicitor to be more helpful to your mum who is, after all, the solicitor's client.

 

[daisydi]

Hi Daisy. Some thoughts.

Your POA must be the older type called Enduring Power of Attorney. For this, you the Attorney are required to formally register your POA once the donor (your mum) has, or is beginning to, lose mental capacity. See this link: https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

However, potentially you and your sister want to have joint and several POA, which would mean your mum would have to grant a new Lasting Power of Attorney (these have to be registered from the start) https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties.

She could still grant POA provided that she understands in the moment what she is doing.

Do you think she would want your sister to be her Attorney? Perhaps you should be talking to her about it? She is the one who must agree to that change, if she has capacity to do so.

I can also foresee there being a possible delay between one and the other, but you'd have to check with the Office of the Public Guardian about those sorts of transitions from EPA to LPA; it might be more straightforward than I think.

Has the solicitor explained why s/he won't release the original? If you choose to register your existing EPA you can enclose a certified copy but in our experience they will only accept this if the original is lost. We had to get the original EPA document from MIL's solicitor; OPG refused to register the POA without the original.

Do you think the solicitor has lost the original? Perhaps if they have no good excuse you could start by getting advice from OPG and take it from there? Knowing that you mean business might be enough to get the solicitor to be more helpful to your mum who is, after all, the solicitor's client.

Thanks will have a look. Its bad enough losing my mum to dementia and having to put her into care. I've always had a much closer relationship with my mum than my sister and I'm really not sure in her right mind she would have wanted her to have POA. It looks like I should have registered it anyway. I am completely new to this disease and I just dont know what I should be doing. I think as I am the youngest my sister is a bit resentful but its not my fault she married a **** and its not my fault my eldest sister died. I will try to get the original POA with a letter from my mum I think as a start ...

 

[Pickles53]

I had no problem getting the original EPOA document from my mother's solicitor. As Katrine says, in order to register the POA with the OPG you must send the original unless it is confirmed that the original is lost.

Have you told the solicitor that this is why you need the original? If not, reminding them of the OPG requirement might be enough to change their attitude. If it doesn't, then I would either call the OPG or the Solicitors Regulation Authority for advice.

 

[daisydi]

I had no problem getting the original EPOA document from my mother's solicitor. As Katrine says, in order to register the POA with the OPG you must send the original unless it is confirmed that the original is lost.

Have you told the solicitor that this is why you need the original? If not, reminding them of the OPG requirement might be enough to change their attitude. If it doesn't, then I would either call the OPG or the Solicitors Regulation Authority for advice.

Thanks. My mum's solicitors told me I had to find another solicitor to request it from them. When I rang another solicitor they said that was rubbish. I will try again tomorrow.

 

[Katrine]

Yes, they are talking rubbish. Ring them to make an appointment to collect the original EPA. Ask what ID documents they require to see (photo ID and a recent utility bill/bank statement for you with your current address is the usual). Also check whether they wish to see proof of your mum's current address because they may wish to write to her to confirm her instructions to release the document to you.

Because the EPA is currently unregistered, the solicitor may take the view that legally your mum has capacity. Without a psychiatrist's report stating the contrary the solicitor may be over-zealously protecting your mum as the client.

I had experience of a very obstructive Scottish solicitor who held documents for my mum and he went as far as writing to the Law Society to confirm that he was entitled to hold on to them (even though some of them were just household papers that had belonged to my father such as invoices for repairs and building work).

After a year, when I was eventually granted Guardianship (similar to Deputyship in England) this solicitor grudgingly released the papers I wanted but insisted on hanging on to my mum's Will rather than transferring it to her new solicitor as I had requested. Apparently the law does not give me the right to access her Will. Only the executors can do this, so I had to accept it. Fortunately this does not impact on my work as Guardian; it will just be a minor inconvenience to the executors.

Sometimes I think solicitors enjoy being obstructive, but when you realise what the potential consequences are for them if they get it wrong (being struck off and losing their livelihood) you can understand why they are ultra-cautious. In your case, I think a face to face meeting with the solicitor would reduce suspicion on both sides. When s/he understands the circumstances I hope that things will go more smoothly for you.

 

[her majesty]

Hi Vix
coming late to the thread, but it sounds like you are having identical problems to the ones I had also. I spent five months trying to get my elderly relative's bank to register an EPA, and found it a frustrating and upsetting process. I also faced the same obstructiveness from solicitors, who really didn't like me "going it alone" and doing the work myself.
Pleased to say it all worked out in the end, and life is a lot less fraught now that I can settle her bill and expenses directly.

I did find this forum tremendously supportive while going through it all.

Best of luck.
x

 

[daisydi]

I had no problem getting the original EPOA document from my mother's solicitor. As Katrine says, in order to register the POA with the OPG you must send the original unless it is confirmed that the original is lost.

Have you told the solicitor that this is why you need the original? If not, reminding them of the OPG requirement might be enough to change their attitude. If it doesn't, then I would either call the OPG or the Solicitors Regulation Authority for advice.

Thank you. I am writing to the solicitor from my mum requesting that the original doc be sent to me. Lets wait and see what happens. Am trying to be positive!

 

[Petrina]

Oh joy! Yet another financial institution that has a different set of requirements. You'd think that the point would have come by now at which the main high street banks and building societies would have got together and agreed things. Sometimes it's the evidence of ID they're not happy with, sometimes it's something to do with the wording of the certification. All of them give me a spiel about its being government requirements. No, legislation does not require one institution to ask for one thing and another institution to ask for something else.

Natwest wouldn't accept a copy certified in black, so I got a copy certified in blue and then a local branch lost a page. BM want every page dated, which no othe institution has. In relation to my ID, they want the certifier to write that it is a true copy, not stamp it, but their requirements for the LPA are ambiguous.

NBS wouldn't let me make an appointment to go in or deal with it in writing. I made multiple visits because apparently the relevant scanner or whatever wasn't working. I'm still waiting weeks later for them to sort out the problem of only registering my LPA against some of Dad's accounts, not all.

Meanwhile, BM and NS&I sent copy LPAs back by ordinary post. They seem oblivious to the reality that there are plenty of people out there living in houses with shared hallways and temporary posties like the one of mine that left an LPA lying on my doormat.

I gave up on WBBS.

Yorkshire and Coventry were kindness itself and one of them - I forget which - accepted that I had none of the IDs on their list and accepted alternatives. If they can be pleasant and helpful, I can't see why no one else can.

I appreciate that Dad has rather more money and that it's spread around far more institutions than is the case for most people, but the same principle holds good if it's a current account in one institution and a savings account in another. Indeed, I think it's worse then, because if you haven't got much money, you can't rely on one institution's helpfulness to tide you over while you deal with another institution's red tape.

I have reached the point now where I feel inclined not to bother notifying some institutions and just waiting until I can send a death certificate.

Dare I confess that when I started typing this, it was in the hopes that it would be cathartic as I was crying in frustration? It didn't work. I'm still crying. Do you think the next bank will send the certified copy back because it's been wet?

 

[Petrina]

A postscript. I have just realised that aside for a small break to moan on here, I have spent the whole afternoon trying to sort out registering my LPA with just one bank. I have now put in a formal complaint.

In practical terms, based around all the phone calls, reading, emails, visits etc. to each institution and taking into account having to have the same copy LPA certified in different ways for different institutions and the time taken to take paperwork to the post offic to send recorded, I'd anticipate Dad's portfolio taking me at least the equivalent of three months based on a 40 hour working week. It shouldn't be like this.

 

[Familyfairy]

|Oh dear I have just started this process with a few banks and I thought it would be easy|!

I'm at the same point, and now feeling very dismayed and daunted!

 

[daisydi]

A postscript. I have just realised that aside for a small break to moan on here, I have spent the whole afternoon trying to sort out registering my LPA with just one bank. I have now put in a formal complaint.

In practical terms, based around all the phone calls, reading, emails, visits etc. to each institution and taking into account having to have the same copy LPA certified in different ways for different institutions and the time taken to take paperwork to the post offic to send recorded, I'd anticipate Dad's portfolio taking me at least the equivalent of three months based on a 40 hour working week. It shouldn't be like this.

I spent hours the other day trying to speak to someone who had written to me and said to contact her with any queries. I ended up having to go through all the telephone security which my mum didnt have so consequently didnt get pass security, had to set up telephone banking security, couldnt speak to the person who wrote to me as nobody knew her in the call centre in whatever part of the world they were in and had to explain everything over and over again only to be told they couldnt help me. I ended up in tears and have given up for the time being!

 

[byrnedjp]

for what its worth

My Uncle was using a bankbook (remember them) to do his banking - I spoke to his bank and said he needed easier access as his mobility was poor and I was his carer - he managed to speak to the bank by phone and pass their various checking processes and I managed to get him a cashpoint card, current account and online access - every time I need to use any money I show him online exactly what has happened and it works well - I know for many its past that stage but if mobility is an issue I hope this is a solution.