http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...hould-stop-trying-to-cure-it-says-doctor.html
This quote is from the article -
This quote is from the article -
Telegraph article
- Thread starter Izzy
- Start date
I suppose it depends on the cancer. I mean, if it is incurable, you don't have many options and if it is curable, then it should be treated.
But the problem is with this sort of Op Ed piece: he hasn't done it. By definition. I'm not at all in favour of last chance, heroic efforts but this is rather simplistic, no?
But the problem is with this sort of Op Ed piece: he hasn't done it. By definition. I'm not at all in favour of last chance, heroic efforts but this is rather simplistic, no?
My thoughts too, Sylvia.
As I have 3 friends battling cancer at the moment, Pete's passing, and another relative (by marriage) diagnosed with Alzheimer Disease it's a rocky road taken by all.
Love,
Lyn T
Of course we should continue to strive to find a cure for cancer. My cousin died when he was only 42. His son was only a young teenager and has been left without his dad. His partner was only in her 30s and she was a widow. It was horrendous for them.
It seemed to me that his death was also the catalyst for my mam's dementia - his death affected her really badly, and she said to me "I've watched most of my own generation die, do I now have to watch the next generation die too?" It was then that I started to notice her decline.
There will always be the debate about whether it's better to go suddenly or to have a longer time before dying, but sweeping statements like this make me very angry.
It seemed to me that his death was also the catalyst for my mam's dementia - his death affected her really badly, and she said to me "I've watched most of my own generation die, do I now have to watch the next generation die too?" It was then that I started to notice her decline.
There will always be the debate about whether it's better to go suddenly or to have a longer time before dying, but sweeping statements like this make me very angry.
I heard about this on our local radio last night , Putting it mildly I was and still am spitting .
Their has been lots of cancer on both sides of my family and I am sure of many on TP. My dad so far is the only one who has survived it.
Whatever the cause, it is terrible watching someone suffer a long slow death.
He should have put his brain in gear before opening his mouth.
Their has been lots of cancer on both sides of my family and I am sure of many on TP. My dad so far is the only one who has survived it.
Whatever the cause, it is terrible watching someone suffer a long slow death.
He should have put his brain in gear before opening his mouth.
I made a comment somewhere about this yesterday as I was in the middle of a reply when I heard it on the radio.
Like you I am spitting feathers and bad language. I have lost two friends to cancer in the last 12 months. Both were men in their very early 70's. One had very obvious signs but it was not picked up because there was a false positive on the test. By the time, two years later, when they found out what was wrong, it was too late. That man, a good man, always helpful to many, many people. A man whom I was proud to call a friend was condemned to die in excruciating agony. Try that Mr. Consultant. The other gentleman was in his 69's when diagnosed and all the treatment at one of the best hospitals in the country couldn't save him. Would you prefer that one, Mr. Consultant?
I can't believe this crass comment by someone who should know better. Or perhaps he isn't practising now?
Dementia deaths can be pretty horrible and painful, but I'm not sure you should compare the two.
Grrrrr
Like you I am spitting feathers and bad language. I have lost two friends to cancer in the last 12 months. Both were men in their very early 70's. One had very obvious signs but it was not picked up because there was a false positive on the test. By the time, two years later, when they found out what was wrong, it was too late. That man, a good man, always helpful to many, many people. A man whom I was proud to call a friend was condemned to die in excruciating agony. Try that Mr. Consultant. The other gentleman was in his 69's when diagnosed and all the treatment at one of the best hospitals in the country couldn't save him. Would you prefer that one, Mr. Consultant?
I can't believe this crass comment by someone who should know better. Or perhaps he isn't practising now?
Dementia deaths can be pretty horrible and painful, but I'm not sure you should compare the two.
Grrrrr
The article and this discussion hits very close to home. My wife’s memory was becoming a bit hit and miss, but not really a problem for us. She was then diagnosed with bowel cancer. The subsequent operation, left her with an irreversible stoma, no insight into her condition and very little short term memory, which has now disappeared completely as the AD. took hold. The difficulties of dealing with this never stop coming, and at times I am overwhelmed by it all. In my very black moments, I am ashamed to say, I am tempted to wonder ‘what if?’
I understand everyones point of view and agree we should never stop trying to cure cancers. I lost my Father to lung cancer and am now losing my mother a day at a time to vascular dementia. None of us gets to chose our destiny but I would rather have cancer than dementia.
What to do - push very hard to understand and prevent dementia. That is the real answer. Get to the root cause.
What to do - push very hard to understand and prevent dementia. That is the real answer. Get to the root cause.
I would rather have cancer than this affliction, which becomes like a cancer of. the soul - who I am, lost as whatever is causing this eats at my nervous system.
There is a root cause one which I seek and try and get those responsible for my care to seek with me but if they are not able, nor want to seek that answer then I continue searching.
If this Dr is calling for better care for the dying, all the dying and not just those with a cancer diagnosis, yes I am all for that but please no don't miss the opportunity nor responsibility to seek cures for all illnesses, that is also borne of love.
I read this short publication many years ago by a GP dying of cancer
http://www.cmf.org.uk/bookstore/?context=book&id=51
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This guy needs to enter the real world. People die every day without the chance to say their good byes. We had a fit and healthy 15 year old daughter one moment the next she was dead. We never had the chance to say good bye. Throughout the world this happens every day.
As long as we keep saying Alzheimer's is so very awful, do you wonder people in general do not wish know. When my late wife was diagnosed I viewed it as an opportunity to use the time we were granted, to provide the best quality of life possible. Just weeks before she passed I took her out shopping. Had I accepted what I was told, there is little doubt she would have suffered a terrible 'end of life' like so many write of here.
As for cancer not a day goes by that I'm not in considerable pain. I spent three weeks in intensive care after my operation for stomach cancer. Support? What support? I've been left to get on the best I can, but that's the way it is. Our son is presently battling with bowel cancer. These are the many challenges of life. I consider myself lucky not to be both blind and deaf! What about their world? When the going gets tough...........
As long as we keep saying Alzheimer's is so very awful, do you wonder people in general do not wish know. When my late wife was diagnosed I viewed it as an opportunity to use the time we were granted, to provide the best quality of life possible. Just weeks before she passed I took her out shopping. Had I accepted what I was told, there is little doubt she would have suffered a terrible 'end of life' like so many write of here.
As for cancer not a day goes by that I'm not in considerable pain. I spent three weeks in intensive care after my operation for stomach cancer. Support? What support? I've been left to get on the best I can, but that's the way it is. Our son is presently battling with bowel cancer. These are the many challenges of life. I consider myself lucky not to be both blind and deaf! What about their world? When the going gets tough...........
I can't believe he can say that cancer is a "Good" death. Surely no one wishes to watch a loved one suffering and, like many here, I know quite a few who have battled cancer, some lost , some won.
Yes it might be nice to have warning of death, to get used to the idea, to put your house in order, so to speak, but both cancer and dementia destroy in hideous ways before that final event - we would be condemmed for letting an animal suffer this way.
Yes a quick, clean death is a shock to those left behind but it can also be a comfort.
This doctor seems to have forgotton what it is to empathise, as a professional he seems to see only the clinical aspects, has he never watched someone begging for something to take the pain away ?
Yes some of the "remedies" may be as bad as the disease but that shouldn't mean we stop trying - what would the world be if we didn't have hope ?
I hope the article is just "soundbites" and that he put more context in his original dialogue - it is always hard to guess the accuracy of a newspaper article but this one does seem determined to provoke !
Yes it might be nice to have warning of death, to get used to the idea, to put your house in order, so to speak, but both cancer and dementia destroy in hideous ways before that final event - we would be condemmed for letting an animal suffer this way.
Yes a quick, clean death is a shock to those left behind but it can also be a comfort.
This doctor seems to have forgotton what it is to empathise, as a professional he seems to see only the clinical aspects, has he never watched someone begging for something to take the pain away ?
Yes some of the "remedies" may be as bad as the disease but that shouldn't mean we stop trying - what would the world be if we didn't have hope ?
I hope the article is just "soundbites" and that he put more context in his original dialogue - it is always hard to guess the accuracy of a newspaper article but this one does seem determined to provoke !
My OH is a very happy person as he doesn't understand what's happening to him. Would I wish he had cancer instead? No. I wish dementia was treatable like cancer and I am very happy that many cancers now are curable. My Mum survived breast cancer. Dementia is often more horrible for the carer than for the patient. You can live well with it if you have people looking after you. If you are on your own, you're a bit stuffed but I would never want to be so arrogant as to tell anyone which disease is the worst as they all affect us differently. As for him saying we should stop researching cancer treatments, I simply have no words for this kind of stupidity.
That we should take every opportunity to provide the best quality of life possible is a given, and, in my view, that’s just what this forum is all about.
Are you saying we should make light of Alzheimer’s ? I would be lying in my teeth if I were to try and give the impression that it’s a walk in the park.
I do not agree with the article.
I know somebody managed to get the all clear from Cancer around 15 years ago.
At the time he had 2 daughters in their later teens.
He saw his daughters through university and is now the grandfather of 2 granddaughters and 1 grandson and a dog owner.
He keeps himself reasonably fit.
I feel sure his wife and 2 daughters would have not wanted him to be left to die or the dog who he had at the start of the illness.
William
I know somebody managed to get the all clear from Cancer around 15 years ago.
At the time he had 2 daughters in their later teens.
He saw his daughters through university and is now the grandfather of 2 granddaughters and 1 grandson and a dog owner.
He keeps himself reasonably fit.
I feel sure his wife and 2 daughters would have not wanted him to be left to die or the dog who he had at the start of the illness.
William
With respect Padraig-and this is just my opinion-we keep saying that Alzheimer's is so very awful because it is. The more that people in general hear about this disease the more support there could be for research. To be honest I don't think the public know the reality of any kind of Dementia-unless they have experience of it.
They seem to think it is an 'old people's disease'. They are also unaware of how the disease CAN progress. It's not all about memory loss which is how it is generally portrayed.
I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your Daughter, and you and your Son's health problems.
Take care
Lyn T X
I'm fighting a loosing battle here, I never said 'to make light of Alzheimer's'. As for 'a walk in the park' that would sum up the final four years caring for my wife as opposed to the period she spent in a Nursing Home. Every day I visited her for up to nine hours and each time I left I was stressed and frustrated at what I witnessed. It was considered a good Home.
Knowing what I now know about the system, the thought of ever having Alzheimer's is frightening to say the least. To be 'put away', lose my independence and have complete strangers take control of my life I'd rather not think about. The stigma attached to it, I'd rather not let my family know and sooner live in denial. I've had much practice at that. Strangers can not provide the emotional and loving support that is required, in addition to the daily feeding, washing and general care a loved one requires. Because someone cannot speak does not mean they can't communicate.
When I took my wife home she was bedridden with many pressure sores and required an air mattress. She refused to eat and her medical notes I still retain state, 'she is dying' and much more. These notes, some 46 pages I attached to the rear of my book.
Nine months after I took her home the medical diary closed and nurses vanished. It was on a Christmas day I decided to raise her from her bed, on to her wheelchair and take her for the first of her daily walks. I had to support her head with one hand while I pushed with the other. As the months passed she regained the strength to hold her head upright. Over the following four years daily walks became enjoyable as did the twice weekly shopping trips. Yes I'd say 'a walk in the park' as a result I have many happy memories.
To this day I retain many videos and photos of our 'journey'. What I find strange, is that none of the 'experts' appeared interested in how I managed to improve her physical health. Could it be they don't like to be proved wrong?
I'll grant you 'one size' does not fit all, but I read many of the problems I encountered on these boards and overcome them. Nursing Homes are the only and best options for many, but they are first and foremost a business run at a profit for the shareholders and owners.
Knowing what I now know about the system, the thought of ever having Alzheimer's is frightening to say the least. To be 'put away', lose my independence and have complete strangers take control of my life I'd rather not think about. The stigma attached to it, I'd rather not let my family know and sooner live in denial. I've had much practice at that. Strangers can not provide the emotional and loving support that is required, in addition to the daily feeding, washing and general care a loved one requires. Because someone cannot speak does not mean they can't communicate.
When I took my wife home she was bedridden with many pressure sores and required an air mattress. She refused to eat and her medical notes I still retain state, 'she is dying' and much more. These notes, some 46 pages I attached to the rear of my book.
Nine months after I took her home the medical diary closed and nurses vanished. It was on a Christmas day I decided to raise her from her bed, on to her wheelchair and take her for the first of her daily walks. I had to support her head with one hand while I pushed with the other. As the months passed she regained the strength to hold her head upright. Over the following four years daily walks became enjoyable as did the twice weekly shopping trips. Yes I'd say 'a walk in the park' as a result I have many happy memories.
To this day I retain many videos and photos of our 'journey'. What I find strange, is that none of the 'experts' appeared interested in how I managed to improve her physical health. Could it be they don't like to be proved wrong?
I'll grant you 'one size' does not fit all, but I read many of the problems I encountered on these boards and overcome them. Nursing Homes are the only and best options for many, but they are first and foremost a business run at a profit for the shareholders and owners.
What battle are you losing?
Your comment “As long as we keep saying Alzheimer's is so very awful, do you wonder people in general do not wish know.” led me to ask if you meant we should make light of it.
You had the good fortune and opportunity to be able to look after your wife yourself and I applaud that. I also know that, where it can be done, lt is the best option. But please don't knock people, like me, who, in their mid-eighties and poor health, are not able to do the same. I spend enough time at my wife’s CH. to be well aware of the down-side and it gives me sleepless nights. I would rather not be lectured about it. I spend much of my time trying to ensure that she is as well-looked after as possible. I do not find it a walk in the park.
As a matter of interest, not all CH’s are businesses run for profit. I have discovered a Charity which runs a well-appointed specialist CH. as a Trust, which, I have to admit, sounds too good to be true. However, I have great hopes and am busy checking it.
Your comment “As long as we keep saying Alzheimer's is so very awful, do you wonder people in general do not wish know.” led me to ask if you meant we should make light of it.
You had the good fortune and opportunity to be able to look after your wife yourself and I applaud that. I also know that, where it can be done, lt is the best option. But please don't knock people, like me, who, in their mid-eighties and poor health, are not able to do the same. I spend enough time at my wife’s CH. to be well aware of the down-side and it gives me sleepless nights. I would rather not be lectured about it. I spend much of my time trying to ensure that she is as well-looked after as possible. I do not find it a walk in the park.
As a matter of interest, not all CH’s are businesses run for profit. I have discovered a Charity which runs a well-appointed specialist CH. as a Trust, which, I have to admit, sounds too good to be true. However, I have great hopes and am busy checking it.
