Goodbye my love .... John died today

WIFE

Registered User
May 23, 2014
856
0
WEST SUSSEX
Look girls - and it is only from my perspective and believe me I have been in this position with my Mother and Brother's deaths in the recent years but how about ditching all the vitriol and just concentrating on making the day(s) the most tranquil and best you can for your Men. Surely just the sadness of your husbands' last few years is enough stress for the time being without creating more by "putting words into other people's mouths". Silly people, their loss I always say (remember I'm that Saint!). Maybe we just have more "soul" than these thoughtless ones and that is the way they have spent their lives - only really thinking about themselves and their feelings. We can't change them.

You probably will not want to communicate through the ether with me anymore but I say, "cast not the first stone etc" and "judge not lest ye be judge". Of course you are hurting and anything like callous words will feel far worse now but try to remember the better days - how would you have responded to these silly people then? Probably just ignored them. The not responding to the request to know whether they will require refreshments after the Funeral if they are even going to be there is just rude - there you are - they are just silly, rude, callous, uncaring people - not true friends. Who needs them? End of Sermon!
 

stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,712
0
North West
It's not either/or is it?

Surely people can mourn for their loss and celebrate the life and at the same time feel vitriolic to the 'rude pigs' etc. In fact some people, I may be one, are better off getting it all out of their system - if they can't 'just forget it' which would probably be the best approach, in an ideal world.

I hope and expect, BTW, that your comments will be taken in the spirit that you intended and that you will not be cast into outer darkness.:)
 

Grey Lad

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
5,736
0
North East Lincs
Look girls - and it is only from my perspective and believe me I have been in this position with my Mother and Brother's deaths in the recent years but how about ditching all the vitriol and just concentrating on making the day(s) the most tranquil and best you can for your Men. Surely just the sadness of your husbands' last few years is enough stress for the time being without creating more by "putting words into other people's mouths". Silly people, their loss I always say (remember I'm that Saint!). Maybe we just have more "soul" than these thoughtless ones and that is the way they have spent their lives - only really thinking about themselves and their feelings. We can't change them.

You probably will not want to communicate through the ether with me anymore but I say, "cast not the first stone etc" and "judge not lest ye be judge". Of course you are hurting and anything like callous words will feel far worse now but try to remember the better days - how would you have responded to these silly people then? Probably just ignored them. The not responding to the request to know whether they will require refreshments after the Funeral if they are even going to be there is just rude - there you are - they are just silly, rude, callous, uncaring people - not true friends. Who needs them? End of Sermon!

Hi Scarlett I must say I am with WIFE on this one. There is little point in trying to change others and believe me I can preach this but find it hard to practise. We all know what a lovely person you are. You comments to my pleas for help have been priceless. It is not easy to accept how other people treat us: sometimes we just have to accept the strange ways in which they conduct themselves.
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
I'm not sure why it really matters that much if the exact number attending the funeral is known beforehand? As I said on Lyn's thread, I didn't ' invite' anyone to Dave's funeral and have never been invited to one either.
Perhaps customs vary from place to place but as far as I've been always been aware, people attend funerals if they wish to say goodbye to someone as a sign of respect or to support the family who are grieving. They just come! I've attended a number of funerals where churches were full of people who just turn up.

I have to say that I appreciated every person who came to say goodbye to Dave, whether I knew they were coming or not. I didn't even know some ex-teaching colleagues who came but I was very touched that they had thought so much of Dave that they made the effort to attend.

Ok, only one ex-teacher visited Dave in hospital and nursing home though his headmaster had kept in touch via the phone but I will always remember that man who visited even when Dave was totally unresponsive, with gratitude. The others I'll forgive and forget. They have their lives to live of which I know little.

I agree that numbers for refreshments can bring creases to the forehead but a buffet can overcome that. Most people won't worry about how much they have to eat as they are there for you and John.
I would just concentrate on those two as well - you and John, he is the person who really matters when all is said and done.

Yet - it's not always easy to forgive the ways of others.
My grievance was the fact that some neighbours with whom we had lived in our small close for over 33 years didn't so much as utter a word of sympathy, or pop a card in if they really didn't know what to say, as is the excuse given by some.
I haven't delivered a Christmas card to them this year.
Petty? Maybe - but if someone with whom Dave was on friendly terms, can't even ask about him once in the nigh on 4 years since the day he was rushed into hospital for an emergency amputation nor utter a word of sympathy at his passing, they cannot be called neighbourly.

Just try to forget those who are annoying you. They are not important. Not now anyway. xxx
 
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LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
13,730
0
Ireland
Well, I understand what Wife is saying, and as far as anything beyond finding out numbers for the caterers goes, I think she's right. However, I still think that a brief and pointed reminder to those that haven't replied is called for. After all, Scarlett will be left to foot the bill if she counts them in and they don't turn up, and equally, she may feel that good friends are being short-changed if the caterers run short because of unexpected guests.
 

Scarlett123

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
3,802
0
Essex
Well Diane replied this evening:

Hi, I was celebrating late last night, so just read your text. I can't come. Hope it goes well

My reply:

Thank you for telling me about your "celebrating" whilst I am mourning John. No phone call, not even a card, and you had to be reminded to eventually reply. But I am not the slightest bit surprised


Goodness, we live in a democratic world, and I welcome all your opinions, and I can see your point of view WIFE. Perhaps our opinions differ on this, but I don't feel charitable enough to ignore rudeness from others.

Saffie, if it was just a question of turning up for the funeral, that would be fine, but I need to know numbers for catering purposes at the restaurant. The restaurant have asked me. But actually I am so distressed with the fact that people cannot be bothered to just say (a) I can come (b) I can't come (c) I won't know till the day, when they have been asked to let me know, that I feel nothing but anger, that I am having to remind them at a time like this.

The Celebrant visited today, and he's lovely and very hot on the detail of the service. He made me laugh because he said 3 families, in as many weeks, have said "we'd like our friend to give The Urology"!

A friend came this morning, then the Celebrant, but I've spent the rest of the time feeling so low. Remember, WIFE, I still have to battle with the Registrars tomorrow about the replacement certificate. They won't answer the phone, so that's another trip out. And perhaps I shouldn't feel angry when I go there, but I am.

When my Dad died, and then my Mum died, I did all the catering and funeral arrangements myself. Mum said she couldn't cope when Dad died, so I did the coping and though I wanted to do the right thing for them, my feelings were totally different to now. I missed them terribly. I cried for them. But now, I feel a physical pain.

And anger. Such anger. Angry that John had to be one of those who got this hateful cruel disease. Angry that we were robbed of the last 12 years of happy retirement. And I'm sorry WIFE, but I feel uncontrollable anger that, for example, the neighbour opposite, the same age as John, is alive and John isn't.

Lyn said a neighbour said to her "you must be glad he's at peace". No, she wasn't glad, she just wished he had never got AD in the first place. Perhaps some New Widows/Widowers feel Christian and forgiving, and accepting, and there may well be a lot of you who aren't yet in this position, who will feel like that.

But I can't, and I don't see why I should let it eat away inside me, just so that the Rude Pigs don't get offended and if that makes me a failure, well so be it.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
I probably couldn't have replied like you but that's because I try not to be confrontational unless I have to be but it's an honest response which she probably didn't think she'd receive and that's good. If people don't understand how they make you feel you must tell them.

And boy, what a cold response of hers, not even a sorry. And in which way can a funeral "go well"? The vicar isn't drunk and no one topples in the open grave or something? This isn't an operation it's a funeral. Tss.

I wish you strength tomorrow.
 

jan.s

Registered User
Sep 20, 2011
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0
72
I have deleted my post because I don't feel my comments are helpful. They are just my view.
 
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Scarlett123

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
3,802
0
Essex
Dear Scarlett, I am so sad to read about how upset you feel with so many aspects, and it's understandable.

Sometimes people are thoughtless and appear callous, as with D. I feel sure the funeral will be better without her, and it's her losing the opportunity to say goodbye.

I too can understand your anger at the disease. I feel that too. People talk about their retirement, Roger and I didn't have any active retirement. I retired as he went into care. All our hopes and dreams never happened.

But this isn't about me, it's about you. I do completely understand your anger and resentment. Over the past couple of years, I have tried to dismiss anger, because the only person that suffers is you. I find this quote a very useful reminder.

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Jan x


I'm sorry if this reads like I'm preaching, that is not my intention, just want to offer support. J x

And that's it in a nutshell. I have only stated the facts to my friend, and I've thrown the coal to her. If I hadn't I would have wasted time thinking about it.
 

Scarlett123

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
3,802
0
Essex
I probably couldn't have replied like you but that's because I try not to be confrontational unless I have to be but it's an honest response which she probably didn't think she'd receive and that's good. If people don't understand how they make you feel you must tell them.

And boy, what a cold response of hers, not even a sorry. And in which way can a funeral "go well"? The vicar isn't drunk and no one topples in the open grave or something? This isn't an operation it's a funeral. Tss.

I wish you strength tomorrow.

Precisely. No "sorry", and a stupid remark about going well. If she'd given a bit more thought to it, perhaps she'd have corrected her reply.
 

WIFE

Registered User
May 23, 2014
856
0
WEST SUSSEX
Scarlett, dear one - I am so sorry for your anger and I certainly did not want to cause you more distress. It was just a point of view from my perspective and believe me, I have been angry in the past over others responses to situations in my life. I find now that "turn the other cheek" often produces more from those with any conscience than outright confrontation but we all have to do things in our own way.

I sincerely hope and pray that everything to do with John's Funeral runs smoothly and you are able to find some measure of comfort and peace from the true friends who join you to celebrate his precious life.
 

truth24

Registered User
Oct 13, 2013
5,725
0
North Somerset
Dear Scarlett. I know I'm not so far along the path as you, but think we can all relate to and understand your anger. There can't be any of us who haven't asked "why us?" and raged at people who don't understand/aren't experiencing what we are, etc, and it must be overwhelming when you come to the parting of the ways combined with that sense of loss, of being robbed of your future. Will be thinking of you my lovely. Verityxx

Sent from my GT-N5110
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
O dear. Yes, that reponse from your friend, now ex-friend I would imagine, was so insensitive.
No understanding whatsoever - well she might have a bit more now!

The thing is that we had an open invitation to the venue afterwards printed on the back of the Order of Service and the curate also invited everyone back as it's what I've always known. So we had nobody to blame for lack of prior awareness of numbers for the tea but ourselves. A number of people didn't take up the invitation for various reasons so we were ok in the end. More than ok as there was a lot of food left over due to my overestimating!

Having said that though, I've never taken up the general invitation made in a funeral unless I was personally asked to do so. That makes my contribution to this discussion rather contradictory I guess!

As for people's comments - they just don't understand. Try to put them from your mind. Difficult as I know well.
I am not a 'turn the other cheek' sort of person but nor am I able to articulate my anger at the time. I'm more of a simmerer and an absolute non- forgetter- and probably an unforgiver too though I know I should let that go. Not sure I can though. Perhaps I should try harder.

Keep your anger Scarlett, it is a protective armour at this vulnerable time.
I wish I could feel more anger as I think it would help my guilt. I just feel such sorrow and sadness.

Keep strong. x


Thanks for the link 2jays. x
 
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Rathbone

Registered User
May 17, 2014
2,264
0
West Sussex
Now what would you have done without my five pennyworth, Scarlett? I sincerely hope you are having a compassionate, gentle time at the hands of the Registrar today, possibly as I write. They sure need to eat humble pie IMHO.
The thing about the expression of any of our emotions is just that: they our OUR emotions and OUR way of letting them out is the ONLY thing that matters to us. If we can do it without hurting anybody else, so well and good. If others are getting in the way of our need for explosion, explanation, justification or any other "ion", that is certainly unfortunate, but not life-threatening; they'll get over it. My opinion is that people need to be brought up short for such callousness - I am reminded of the scathing dressing down which Garnuft gave that cretin who insulted her sweet son - and it is also true that sometimes Silence hits home the hardest. What I do know is that keeping in an anger such as you are in the middle of, is damaging to self and MUST be allowed free expression. Will I mind you looking at me sideways if I say "You can tell it to the trees - they will bear it for you" - well, no actually! It's a 'safe' way to let it out. When you are in the s...t hole as you are Scarlett, you have to throw some s..t about to climb your way to the top again! Sorry if so-called friends get a bit messy in the process; that's life!
Right behind you gal. X Love always Shelagh:)
 

garnuft

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
6,585
0
No good using me as an example Shelagh. I'm the angriest person I know. :D:eek:

It's a defence mechanism, I'm still working on being cool, calm and collected, it's my lifelong project.

Hope today goes through without hitches Scarlett.x
 

Rathbone

Registered User
May 17, 2014
2,264
0
West Sussex
In the Great Catalogue of Life Lessons, you, IMHO, have many things to teach, Garnuft! Speaking for me, angry shouting stops me doing something unmentionable with my hands. Where did all those years of patient working with patients go? :confused:Perhaps I'm angrier with the lot which has befallen us than I realised. I must make more of an effort - as my school report said on more than one occasion. :DX Love Shelagh:)
 

Trisha4

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
2,440
0
Yorkshire
Well Diane replied this evening:

Hi, I was celebrating late last night, so just read your text. I can't come. Hope it goes well

My reply:

Thank you for telling me about your "celebrating" whilst I am mourning John. No phone call, not even a card, and you had to be reminded to eventually reply. But I am not the slightest bit surprised


Goodness, we live in a democratic world, and I welcome all your opinions, and I can see your point of view WIFE. Perhaps our opinions differ on this, but I don't feel charitable enough to ignore rudeness from others.

Saffie, if it was just a question of turning up for the funeral, that would be fine, but I need to know numbers for catering purposes at the restaurant. The restaurant have asked me. But actually I am so distressed with the fact that people cannot be bothered to just say (a) I can come (b) I can't come (c) I won't know till the day, when they have been asked to let me know, that I feel nothing but anger, that I am having to remind them at a time like this.

The Celebrant visited today, and he's lovely and very hot on the detail of the service. He made me laugh because he said 3 families, in as many weeks, have said "we'd like our friend to give The Urology"!

A friend came this morning, then the Celebrant, but I've spent the rest of the time feeling so low. Remember, WIFE, I still have to battle with the Registrars tomorrow about the replacement certificate. They won't answer the phone, so that's another trip out. And perhaps I shouldn't feel angry when I go there, but I am.

When my Dad died, and then my Mum died, I did all the catering and funeral arrangements myself. Mum said she couldn't cope when Dad died, so I did the coping and though I wanted to do the right thing for them, my feelings were totally different to now. I missed them terribly. I cried for them. But now, I feel a physical pain.

And anger. Such anger. Angry that John had to be one of those who got this hateful cruel disease. Angry that we were robbed of the last 12 years of happy retirement. And I'm sorry WIFE, but I feel uncontrollable anger that, for example, the neighbour opposite, the same age as John, is alive and John isn't.

Lyn said a neighbour said to her "you must be glad he's at peace". No, she wasn't glad, she just wished he had never got AD in the first place. Perhaps some New Widows/Widowers feel Christian and forgiving, and accepting, and there may well be a lot of you who aren't yet in this position, who will feel like that.

But I can't, and I don't see why I should let it eat away inside me, just so that the Rude Pigs don't get offended and if that makes me a failure, well so be it.

Did your stupid friend(?) Diane read your text or did she think she was replying to a party invitation?
I think your reply was controlled in the circumstances.
I'm sure we will all be interested to know if she replies to that. I'd strike her off any list I held.
X


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