Really worried about Nana :(

[aeg85]

Hello, I'm new here, I've been reading posts for a little while now but events regarding my nana this week have led me to post. I apologise this is long, I'm just getting it all out.

To cut a long story short, after a few trips to the hospital over the past few months my nana was diagnosed with the early stages of dementia and a couple of months ago was put on some tablets. She would often repeat herself in conversation and seemed quite depressed, fortunately the depression has gone since taking these tablets but I feel her memory has not improved.

My nana lives quite far away with her husband, my step-grandad, in their home where carers come to give them their tablets everyday. We organised these as my nana overdosed on Codeine back in June after forgetting she had taken them so we could no longer trust her to take her medication properly. This caused some friction between my mam and my step-grandads elderly daughter over getting the help for them because she and her siblings always assumed my nana cared for their father. I suppose she does care for him because he is 90 and has Parkinson's Disease and she makes the meals, helps him in the bath, etc. but she is still his wife.

It was my nana's 78th birthday yesterday and she had no idea, I think that hit me and my mam quite a bit as we went over with a cake and presents etc but she kept forgetting so when we left we got a bit upset. We also noticed that she's been wearing dirty clothes lately so we're trying to sort that out too.

Anyways, the main reason I am posting is about his elderly daughter and her husband which I presume are in their 60s. Last night, my nana's husband said he thought someone was stealing from his bank account, after analysing we discovered they had a joint account and it was my nana just getting money out. Then it came to light that his daughter and husband had taken them to the bank a couple of months ago and set up a joint account for them and they have merged their money together without discussing it with me and my mam first. We are furious, they are well aware of my nana's memory problems and my nana mentioned that they had said to her that she has a lot of money.

My mam and I are actually in the middle of setting up Lasting Power of Attorney for us both for my nana and a will for her too which will be getting signed on Friday. I've also made an appointment at the bank to see what's going on and try and set my nana up with her own account again. Both my nana and her husband were completely clueless last night about having a joint account.

I was just wondering if anyone has any advice, I haven't spoken to his daughter yet to see what's going on but I also want to wait to see what happens at the bank. Thanks if you read this.

 

[Katrine]

Hello and welcome to TP.

You and your mam seem to have taken the right steps in getting POA and a Will sorted out.

This is just my guess on why your step-aunt and her husband have got them to set up a joint account. They believe, probably correctly, that the funds in a joint account are deemed to belong 50/50 to each party, unless a letter or deed has been lodged stating otherwise.... my brother and I have been joint account holders with my mother for some years, but this was just for administrative convenience. We lodged a letter to this effect with the banks concerned. It was a workaround to avoid the expense of COP proceedings, although this has recently changed and I am now my mother's legal guardian. It's much better to go for POA, which you are doing. Then you can manage her accounts in her best interests, with full legal authority.

I think your step-aunt may be trying to reserve some money for your step-grandfather's needs, seeing as how your Nan looks as if she will need more paid care in future. They didn't like you organising the paid carers because this showed them that they couldn't rely on your Ban to be her husband's carer. With a 12-year age gap, the expectation is that the younger spouse will look after the older one.

I would try to get hold of your Nan's bank statements from before the date this joint account was set up. If she still has another account in her sole name then transfer the same value of funds out again to this account. If not, then you'll have to wait for POA to do this.

You can't actually stop your step-aunt from taking her dad to the bank to withdraw funds from this joint account, which is the risk you are running at present.

If you actually want the bank to freeze the account then you would have to tell the bank that one or both parties has lost mental capacity. How would they manage in the meantime until you are granted POA and could unfreeze the account? If freezing the account would cause big problems then you'll have to take the risk. The best option would be if the bank can reactivate your Nan's solo account, or set up a new one, and get those funds protected again.

If she permits you to do online banking, I suggest setting up 2 accounts. One to be an easy access savings account (or just a 2nd current account). You would put most of her funds in the savings and make it online access only. Then only you and your Mam can manage it. You transfer a small amount on a regular basis to the current account for your Nan's housekeeping needs.

This is what my husband did with his mum's accounts, before it became necessary to register his POA. She started drawing out large amounts of cash so he had to limit the funds she had ready access to, without upsetting her and making her feel that she couldn't go shopping by herself.

 

[aeg85]

Hello and welcome to TP.

You and your mam seem to have taken the right steps in getting POA and a Will sorted out.

This is just my guess on why your stepsister and her husband have got them to set up a joint account. They believe, probably correctly, that the funds in a joint account are deemed to belong 50/50 to each party, unless a letter or deed has been lodged stating otherwise.... my brother and I have been joint account holders with my mother for some years, but this was just for administrative convenience. We lodged a letter to this effect with the banks concerned. It was a workaround to avoid the expense of COP proceedings, although this has recently changed and I am now my mother's legal guardian. It's much better to go for POA, which you are doing. Then you can manage her accounts in her best interests, with full legal authority.

I think your stepsister may be trying to reserve some money for your stepfather's needs, seeing as how your nan looks as if she will need more paid care in future. They didn't like you organising the paid carers because this showed them that they couldn't rely on your nan to be her husband's carer. With a 12-year age gap, the expectation is that the younger spouse will look after the older one.

I would try to get hold of your Nan's bank statements from before the date this joint account was set up. If she still has another account in her sole name then transfer the same value of funds out again to this account. If not, then you'll have to wait for POA to do this.

You can't actually stop your stepsister from taking her dad to the bank to withdraw funds from this joint account, which is the risk you are running at present.

If you actually want the bank to freeze the account then you would have to tell the bank that one or both parties has lost mental capacity. How would they manage in the meantime until you are granted POA and could unfreeze the account? If freezing the account would cause big problems then you'll have to take the risk.

Thank you so much for your reply, I wasn't going to freeze the joint account I was just going to take my nana's money out of it and put it in to a separate account and probably leave extra in there joint to hep cover the cost of the carers. I just don't like that they didn't tell us when we're the ones who are there for her and go and see them when they don't. I think they think they're helping but when I went last night they were both confused and my nana can't remember her pin so when she got a new card we had to sort it all out, however we just presumed it was a new card for her old account.

I'll see what happens on Friday at the bank and then I'll speak to his daughter and update her on the situation, however I know I'll get a frosty response, but I'm just looking out for my nana. I like your idea of the 2 accounts, so I'll see what we can do. Thank you so much.

 

[Katrine]

Not to worry you, but I wouldn't trust his daughter. Perhaps she was trying to help, but I can't see why changing their accounts helps them at all. I think she is trying to get access to your Nan's money, on her father's behalf.

It would NOT be wise to discuss any of this with her at the moment. If she's got a hidden agenda then you don't want to give her warning of what you are planning to do. The risk is that, if she is trying to get at your Nan's money, she could just take her father to the bank and get him to draw it all out, or transfer it to a solo account. At present, the law would say it's just as much his money as hers. He could take all of it, and your Nan wouldn't be able to get it back.

This situation is actually none of your step-aunt's business. She has interfered in your Nan's financial affairs. You are not obliged to keep her updated. Don't be intimidated by someone older than you. ATM it sounds as if the less you have to do with her the better.

 

[aeg85]

Not to worry you, but I wouldn't trust his daughter. Perhaps she was trying to help, but I can't see why changing their accounts helps them at all. I think she is trying to get access to your Nan's money, on her father's behalf.

It would NOT be wise to discuss any of this with her at the moment. If she's got a hidden agenda then you don't want to give her warning of what you are planning to do. The risk is that, if she is trying to get at your Nan's money, she could just take her father to the bank and get him to draw it all out, or transfer it to a solo account. At present, the law would say it's just as much his money as hers. He could take all of it, and your Nan wouldn't be able to get it back.

Yes and that's exactly what I'm worried about, especially as they didn't tell us they were doing it and my nana not really having a clue as to what's going on. I've made an appointment at the bank so until then I'll just keep quiet, I do think there's an idea of her getting access to it via my nana's husband so I'm going to be closely watching them from now on. Thank you I'll keep you updated as to what happens.

 

[Beate]

I would be very careful with going to the bank on your Nana's behalf before you have LPA. For one thing, they don't have to tell you anything, and worse, if they suspect that she might have lost capacity or hear about what your relatives have done, they could freeze her account to protect her interests.