Withdrawal of Continuing Care

Floydy

Registered User
Nov 27, 2014
45
0
Hull, East Yorkshire
My sister and myself had a meeting today with the NHS Continuing Care people at my mother's care home for a review of funding.
Putting our best case forward in the end she didn't meet the criteria which is expected for this funding. This now means that her savings, money from the house (which was finally sold last week), pension, all the lot will have to be spent on looking after my mum in the home.

This is of course a huge blow, and my argument with them was that although she is physically moderately active in her walking around, my mum is completely useless mentally and needs 24-hour round-the-clock attention. But because she's no 'real problem' and is basically a 'sweet little old lady', so we lost the help from our wonderful government.

But the main thing is that she is being looked after well and is happy where she is; this care home is excellent. So we now have to dish out almost £600 per WEEK from my mother's account. All my parents worked for all their lives will be gone is less than two years tops. But then we all say that we must save for our old age and that generation were better at saving their money than we are. But in the end they were basically saving their hard-earned money to keep them alive, not to enjoy for themselves. So no inheritance for the offspring as they would also intend. Never mind, my mother comes first and that's all we can be assured of.

So it's a sad state of affairs. The elderly are dismissed as forgotten and worthless to society because they don't have enough money to support the government's tax system. Unless of course they are part of the priveliged few with a lot of dosh and then the state will bend over backwards to support their welfare, as they do with the gadget-adorned, mansion-dwelling benefit families of our confused nation.

Those who have worked hard throughout their lives getting their hands dirty to provide an honest working class income for their families are written off.

Some of the questions I would like to ask members who here who may have been affected similarly are along the lines of:

1. Do Continuing Care take EVERYTHING? Savings, pension pot, the lot.
2. Who pays when my mothers savings run out? Will it go back to government funding, or will we have to pay for it?
3. Any point in seeing the eventual details of my mother's will. There'll be nothing for us left anyway.
4. Should we move our mum to a cheaper care home? Would she settle in? Would is be as good? Is there any point anyway as the funds would still be taken out?
5. Who pays funeral costs when the time comes or is there a special pot which can be held back for these?

These are all questions I really didn't want to be facing. It's hard enough seeing my mother in this state, never mind having to deal with the whole ball game of talking about eventualities and such like.
As you can see, folks, I'm not a particularly happy old Hector at the moment, but I'll deal with all this bother level-headedly and hopefully get a little bit of a positive outcome from it all!

Thanks :)
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
OK - if she is no longer receiving CHC and her assets are above the £23K upper limit (and I assume they are since you mentioned a house sale) she is now self-funding. What this means is that she will now be paying for all her care until she reaches that upper limit. At the present time, when she reaches the upper limit the LA will start to contribute. Your mother will be expected at that time to pay her pensions etc, plus a tariff income of £1 per week per £250 of savings as she drops to the lower savings limit of £14250, less a £23 a week personal expenses allowance. Now I say the present time, because this is changing next year and I suspect she won't have spent down her savings sufficiently by the time the rules change. And those new rules are still a bit up in the air at the moment.

As to moving her - I'm not sure where you are but £600 a week seems, if not a bargain, fairly reasonable (I was paying £750 7 years ago in the midlands). If she is happy and well looked after where she is I personally would not move her. Life is very uncertain and moving her now, in anticipation of a future situation which may never happen, seems unwise. You might also ask the home if they give a break for LA residents. The home my mother was in (see above) accepted the LA contribution of £400 as payment in full for LA residents.

You could look at the will (in fact you really should have a copy of it in case there is something in there regarding her funeral, which you might not find out about until after the fact).

Re the funeral. Prepayment of a funeral plan has always be accepted as a valid way to pay down assets. So you might want to think about that.
 

geum123

Registered User
May 20, 2009
4,604
0
My sister and myself had a meeting today with the NHS Continuing Care people at my mother's care home for a review of funding.
Putting our best case forward in the end she didn't meet the criteria which is expected for this funding. This now means that her savings, money from the house (which was finally sold last week), pension, all the lot will have to be spent on looking after my mum in the home.

This is of course a huge blow, and my argument with them was that although she is physically moderately active in her walking around, my mum is completely useless mentally and needs 24-hour round-the-clock attention. But because she's no 'real problem' and is basically a 'sweet little old lady', so we lost the help from our wonderful government.

But the main thing is that she is being looked after well and is happy where she is; this care home is excellent. So we now have to dish out almost £600 per WEEK from my mother's account. All my parents worked for all their lives will be gone is less than two years tops. But then we all say that we must save for our old age and that generation were better at saving their money than we are. But in the end they were basically saving their hard-earned money to keep them alive, not to enjoy for themselves. So no inheritance for the offspring as they would also intend. Never mind, my mother comes first and that's all we can be assured of.

So it's a sad state of affairs. The elderly are dismissed as forgotten and worthless to society because they don't have enough money to support the government's tax system. Unless of course they are part of the priveliged few with a lot of dosh and then the state will bend over backwards to support their welfare, as they do with the gadget-adorned, mansion-dwelling benefit families of our confused nation.

Those who have worked hard throughout their lives getting their hands dirty to provide an honest working class income for their families are written off.

Some of the questions I would like to ask members who here who may have been affected similarly are along the lines of:

1. Do Continuing Care take EVERYTHING? Savings, pension pot, the lot.
2. Who pays when my mothers savings run out? Will it go back to government funding, or will we have to pay for it?
3. Any point in seeing the eventual details of my mother's will. There'll be nothing for us left anyway.
4. Should we move our mum to a cheaper care home? Would she settle in? Would is be as good? Is there any point anyway as the funds would still be taken out?
5. Who pays funeral costs when the time comes or is there a special pot which can be held back for these?

These are all questions I really didn't want to be facing. It's hard enough seeing my mother in this state, never mind having to deal with the whole ball game of talking about eventualities and such like.
As you can see, folks, I'm not a particularly happy old Hector at the moment, but I'll deal with all this bother level-headedly and hopefully get a little bit of a positive outcome from it all!

Thanks :)

If your Mum has been in receipt of NHS Continuing Care and it has now been withdrawn you can challenge that decision.
 

Floydy

Registered User
Nov 27, 2014
45
0
Hull, East Yorkshire
OK - if she is no longer receiving CHC and her assets are above the £23K upper limit (and I assume they are since you mentioned a house sale) she is now self-funding. What this means is that she will now be paying for all her care until she reaches that upper limit. At the present time, when she reaches the upper limit the LA will start to contribute. Your mother will be expected at that time to pay her pensions etc, plus a tariff income of £1 per week per £250 of savings as she drops to the lower savings limit of £14250, less a £23 a week personal expenses allowance. Now I say the present time, because this is changing next year and I suspect she won't have spent down her savings sufficiently by the time the rules change. And those new rules are still a bit up in the air at the moment.

As to moving her - I'm not sure where you are but £600 a week seems, if not a bargain, fairly reasonable (I was paying £750 7 years ago in the midlands). If she is happy and well looked after where she is I personally would not move her. Life is very uncertain and moving her now, in anticipation of a future situation which may never happen, seems unwise. You might also ask the home if they give a break for LA residents. The home my mother was in (see above) accepted the LA contribution of £400 as payment in full for LA residents.

You could look at the will (in fact you really should have a copy of it in case there is something in there regarding her funeral, which you might not find out about until after the fact).

Re the funeral. Prepayment of a funeral plan has always be accepted as a valid way to pay down assets. So you might want to think about that.

Thanks you very much for this, Jennifer. As you see I'm new here today and forgive me if that was all a bit of a rant but I was rather disgusted at the outcome from the CC people the other day and it had bottled up inside me! :eek:

I take this as meaning that my mother's savings will be used up until this cut-off of around £23k am I right? And after that her monies will be subsidised by the LA? I'm sorry but this is all very confusing to me but I think I get the basics in that they will not be taking absolutely everything from her account until there is nothing left? That sounds reasonable.

Yes, the care home is very nice and we did look at others which were slightly cheaper but they were not essentially catering for dementia, more of a general old peoples' facility. So I'm happy to leave her where she is as because she is happy there and recognises the other 'inmates' and staff and it would be unwise to start her all over again somewhere alien.

We have no will except the one which is held by the solicitor. I have contacted them and although I am the elder next of kin, my sister took my mother to see about this in the first place when she had a 'moderate' capacity, and ceratin details were changed. I am assured reliably by my sister that there is nothing untoward in the will's alterations, but my main point was that hopefully there will be money left to cover the eventual funeral expenses.

I hate talking like this as my mother should hopefully be with us for much longer, but I must face all these problems sooner rather than later.
Depending on how the dementia affects her brain co-ordination, I think if it becomes more of a physical issue and starts shutting down her ability to walk, etc, then she will decline rapidly.

I thank you very much for your reply and look forward to chatting with you again here on this interesting forum.
Regards :)
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,350
0
East Kent
Hi Welcome to TP.
From what I have read on here. CHC is often withdrawn on reassessment.
Have the reasons your mum was originally granted CHC actually changed, by this I don't mean because they are being managed well.

A managed need is still a need .
Like Geum said , you are entitled to challenge their decision.
We have some very knowledgeable people on here who can give you advise.
 

cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,936
0
North East England
One small glimmer of light.....as a self funder Mum can claim Attendance Allowance at the higher level....Every little...as they say in adverts, helps.:)
 

Floydy

Registered User
Nov 27, 2014
45
0
Hull, East Yorkshire
Hi Welcome to TP.
From what I have read on here. CHC is often withdrawn on reassessment.
Have the reasons your mum was originally granted CHC actually changed, by this I don't mean because they are being managed well.

A managed need is still a need .
Like Geum said , you are entitled to challenge their decision.
We have some very knowledgeable people on here who can give you advise.

Again, thank you @lin1 and @cragmaid - a very useful alternative option too :)
 

KingB

Registered User
May 8, 2011
254
0
Berkshire
I've gone the prepayment funeral route for mum and dad. Means you can do it in advance when less stressful and can do it according to their wishes. Its a sizeable chunk of money so worth doing it while the money is available.
 

2197alexandra

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
355
0
Sileby
Pre payment funeral is a good way to legally spend a few thousand. I have just finished paying for dad's this way.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Talking Point mobile app
 

Floydy

Registered User
Nov 27, 2014
45
0
Hull, East Yorkshire
I'm thinking the funeral costs will hopefully be met from the pension funds at the moment, pending what the CC people decide to squeeze out of us. We shall see :confused:
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
You have to realise that if you have had CHC withdrawn and you are unsuccessful in your appeal (if you chose to make one) you wouldn't be dealing with them at all from now on. It will be the Local Authority if anyone.

Do make sure she is assessed for the nursing care component though, and apply for AA (or get it reinstated if she had it before).
 

Egeon

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
98
0
Put in a DISPUTE

ASAP

they cannot withdraw funding whilst one is in place as far as I am aware and that could take quite a few weeks
 

gillybean

Registered User
Jan 17, 2007
418
0
Put in a DISPUTE

ASAP

they cannot withdraw funding whilst one is in place as far as I am aware and that could take quite a few weeks

That's really useful info, and will give Floydy some breathing space, but could they recoup this money later if he lost
 

Floydy

Registered User
Nov 27, 2014
45
0
Hull, East Yorkshire
Just a quick question. Am I within my rights to ask for copies of the three assessments my mum has been given? I would like to compare my mother's capabilities from the first one through to the one she was denied last week when the Continuing Care was declined.
The way I see it is that she hasn't got any better so how are CC justified in withdrawing their funding?
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Do you have a welfare LPA? If so, no problem. If not you will probably have to jump through a lot more hoops. I'm not saying you can't get them, but it won't be so clear cut.
 

Floydy

Registered User
Nov 27, 2014
45
0
Hull, East Yorkshire
Do you have a welfare LPA? If so, no problem. If not you will probably have to jump through a lot more hoops. I'm not saying you can't get them, but it won't be so clear cut.

Thanks Jennifer.
I'll have to check with my sister about this, as she was dealing with most of my mother's documentation and the authorities but is at her wits end now. So I said I'd take over, though I'm virtually starting from scratch!
I may contact Social Services and see what they advise.