Feel like SS have told me off for choosing expensive care home

[flossielime]

Well have weeks/months considering and umming and ahhing and tears and sleepless nights. I have decided to go for it and put my dad into respite for a week and move to permanent care if it goes ok.

I have been to see the 10 homes my side of town and chose the one I felt was the best. It was the only one that met my basic criteria of a ground floor room with access to a secure garden and en suite.

So I told social services my plan. They then called me back and said he shouldn't go to that home as it is too expensive.

My dad has a house to sell and a private pension. We have worked out he can afford the home I have chosen for about 3-4 years. The social worker did not use the word reckless but basically told me I was being reckless with his money and my plans were ill advised.

My view being how could I expect him to give up his house with large garden and 2 bathrooms for a small room on the second floor and with a shared bathroom. I wouldn't do it why should he.

I realise we may have to rethink in 3 years if he survives that long BUT my thoughts are maybe he will be so confused by then it wont matter so much.

I would really appreciate other people's opinions on this. BTW the home is £760 per week. Social services pay £480 ish in our area.

Thanks

 

[jenniferpa]

Rubbish. 7 years ago I was paying £750 a week for my mother's home when social services would only contribute £450 at the time. £750 seems like bargain frankly. As a matter of interest, have you asked the home if they accept LA funded clients? Because in the example I gave above, the home charged us one rate but if my mother's money had run out, they would have accepted the LA contribution as payment in full.

May I ask how old your father is?

 

[flossielime]

Thanks jenni

The home has only been open 2 months so currently do not accept LA. They say resident need funding secure for 3 years. So I am assuming they may take LA after 3 years. But they are not saying that that is just my assumption. The home is run charity trust rather than a private company so my guess is they would take LA rate. - But I am aware I am gambling.

 

[flossielime]

BTW social worker did tell me they have 'deals' with many homes in the areas for £500 so I would only need to pay £50 top up if I was to take one of those - after my dads money runs out. My dad has about £450 a week coming in anyway so basically after working for 40 years never claiming any benefit other than the AA I now claim for him and paying his taxes and never having a day off sick never using the NHS until recently for AD. SS want me to accept a tiny room for home with a shared bathroom just in case in another 4 years at 82 he needs a bit money from them!

 

[jenniferpa]

BTW social worker did tell me they have 'deals' with many homes in the areas for £500 so I would only need to pay £50 top up if I was to take one of those - after my dads money runs out. My dad has about £450 a week coming in anyway so basically after working for 40 years never claiming any benefit other than the AA I now claim for him and paying his taxes and never having a day off sick never using the NHS until recently for AD. SS want me to accept a tiny room for home with a shared bathroom just in case in another 4 years at 82 he needs a bit money from them!

Well if you get to that point, then you can tell them that their "deals" are meaningless if they don't have a least one suitable home that will accept their flat rate. You cannot be forced to pay a top-up if there isn't another option: they would have to up their rate.

 

[Witzend]

Ignore them. I would. It's not their money and it is not up to them to tell you how to spend it at this stage. You have your dad's best interests at heart - they are thinking only of possible future costs that might never happen.

 

[flossielime]

They want me to look at 3 homes which are 5/6 miles away - I know not that far in real terms. They assure me these meet my needs. I will go and look.

BUT they are across the town centre which has a very bad traffic problem. So we are going from 10 mins away to 30 plus. This is on top of also having my mum in a nursing home this side of town, I am the carer for my mother in law, who lives near us and has heart failure and mixed dementia, I have 2 kids age 5 and 6 and a job in another city, an hours drive plus my husband works shifts and has a chronic medical condition. I would never have time to visit my dad if he was on the other side of town.

 

[Witzend]

They want me to look at 3 homes which are 5/6 miles away - I know not that far in real terms. They assure me these meet my needs. I will go and look.

BUT they are across the town centre which has a very bad traffic problem. So we are going from 10 mins away to 30 plus. This is on top of also having my mum in a nursing home this side of town, I am the carer for my mother in law, who lives near us and has heart failure and mixed dementia, I have 2 kids age 5 and 6 and a job in another city, an hours drive plus my husband works shifts and has a chronic medical condition. I would never have time to visit my dad if he was on the other side of town.

So these places will not meet the needs of your dad as regards family visits. Again, they are thinking of their own (financial) interests in the event that your dad's money runs out.

If he can self fund for 3-4 years I really do not see that they have the right to tell you
where to place him. If he only had enough for 6 months it would be a different matter. Please don't let them bully you like this.
Honestly, I would tell them where to go.

 

[nicoise]

I apologise for writing this, and I know that many people who post here on the forum have relatives who have lived for a good number of years in residential care - but there is a gloomy statistic that the "average" length of stay in a care home is 832 days - so approximately 2 1/2 years for simplicity (from a study carried out by Bupa).

So I'd recommend you ignore the SW's view that your decision should be based on what or where they'd be prepared to fund if/when the money runs out. Choose the place that you think will meet all your father's needs best, and worry about that future when you get to it.

Don't compromise to meet an hypothetical requirement based on LA funding - who knows what the story will be re funding levels, budgets, or your father's needs by then? Do the best you can for him with his own funds for now, and cross that bridge when you get to it.

 

[Chemmy]

I apologise for writing this, and I know that many people who post here on the forum have relatives who have lived for a good number of years in residential care - but there is a gloomy statistic that the "average" length of stay in a care home is 832 days - so approximately 2 1/2 years for simplicity (from a study carried out by Bupa).

So I'd recommend you ignore the SW's view that your decision should be based on what or where they'd be prepared to fund if/when the money runs out. Choose the place that you think will meet all your father's needs best, and worry about that future when you get to it.

Don't compromise to meet an hypothetical requirement based on LA funding - who knows what the story will be re funding levels, budgets, or your father's needs by then? Do the best you can for him with his own funds for now, and cross that bridge when you get to it.

That would be my view too. If your gut feeling says you think it is the right place, then go for it. Actually, £760 per week doesn't seem excessive these days.

You're never going to get the same deal as the LA if you're self-funding. I know some people complain about having to sell their parents' house, but this shows the benefit of being in the fortunate position of being able to choose where your dad lives, rather than being at the mercy of SS.

Best of luck with this - and do let us know how it goes.

 

[Pickles53]

It's none of their business what you do if you are self-funding. The home we chose for my mum is the most expensive of those we looked at but it was head and shoulders above the others and we are so grateful we did. We had calculated her funds would last at least four years (she's 89 now). The home said that after three years they would accept LA rate. As it happens mum's health has deteriorated much faster than expected and we are now thinking she may not live much longer.

We had very little involvement with SS. We had one visit from SW early this year when she informed us that mum was nowhere near the level of need which would justify them getting involved, so gave us a list of private agencies and left us to get on with sorting carers ourselves. So I felt no need to consult them later on when mum needed residential care.

The main advantage of bring self-funding is that you get to choose what you want. Don't let them push you into a decision that's not right for you all. You do not need to justify your decision to anyone except yourself and your family.

Nicoise I agree 100% with your post especially the last paragraph.

 

[Insomniac]

Absolutely ignore them Flossielime! Sounds like you have the situation well covered financially. As long as the home is happy to accept him knowing your financial basis I would not worry about what could happen 3 years plus down the line. We do not quite meet our homes rules - don't quite have enough funds for 3 years but they are happy to take that and mum would not be moved after funds run out. In reality I have not heard of residents being moved under these circumstances. Go for the one that suits your family's needs the most and that you feel comfortable with. It's hard enough without this nonsense to deal with.


Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point

 

[Rathbone]

How dare they! As if finding a home for your dad isn't hard enough for him and for you. Make your own choices, you do not need to follow what SS tell you to do with HIS money. Let tomorrow take csre of itself, none of us knows what the future holds - thankfully - so we can live for today. In your own case, you surely do not have any more room on your plate for lengthy journeys. Stick to your guns and tell SS what you are going to do, not the other way round. X

 

[Chemmy]

We had very little involvement with SS. We had one visit from SW early this year when she informed us that mum was nowhere near the level of need which would justify them getting involved, so gave us a list of private agencies and left us to get on with sorting carers ourselves. So I felt no need to consult them later on when mum needed residential care.

Quite right, Pickles. There really is no need for SS to be kept informed. You don't need their permission when self-funding, just an assessment interview by the CH manager.

 

[flossielime]

Thank you everyone I feel much better this morning having other people not thinking I am being 'reckless'

In terms of the self funding - as mentioned my parents home will pay for the care for about 3-4 year BUT I have to sell it first! I had wanted SS to put a charge (I know another person that they have done this for) on the house and pay the care bill and I would pay them back when I sold the house. They now dont seem willing to do this if I choose that home.

Once my dad goes into care home my mum would revert to self funding too, so if they wont do the charge thing first I think would need to pay myself in the interim till I sell the house. The bill in terms of my shortfall between income and costs for both my mum and dad would be £3345 a month!! I could do this for just 6 months. Which puts loads of pressure on me to sell the house quickly and maybe not get the best price.

So ideally I would like social services to help - I have not really got my head around how it all works yet.

 

[flossielime]

Also just thinking about my dad's longevity I am not at all sure he will only live 3 years.
The social worker kept point out to me that he is only 77 and people live into their 90s.


It is a terrible position to be in to be guessing how long your parents will live. And dare I say hoping they wont outlive the funding.

My dad is very fit- probably fitter than me with absolutely no health issues other than AD.

 

[marionq]

Thank you everyone I feel much better this morning having other people not thinking I am being 'reckless'

In terms of the self funding - as mentioned my parents home will pay for the care for about 3-4 year BUT I have to sell it first! I had wanted SS to put a charge (I know another person that they have done this for) on the house and pay the care bill and I would pay them back when I sold the house. They now dont seem willing to do this if I choose that home.

Once my dad goes into care home my mum would revert to self funding too, so if they wont do the charge thing first I think would need to pay myself in the interim till I sell the house. The bill in terms of my shortfall between income and costs for both my mum and dad would be £3345 a month!! I could do this for just 6 months. Which puts loads of pressure on me to sell the house quickly and maybe not get the best price.

So ideally I would like social services to help - I have not really got my head around how it all works yet.

You have too much on your hands and if SS are not willing to help in the interim a wee letter outlining all of the above responsibilities you have and how you are trying to resolve them should be sent to your MP. Emphasise the urgency of the need for a decision by the SS to help you until you sell the house. Do not use your own money!

 

[Witzend]

Thank you everyone I feel much better this morning having other people not thinking I am being 'reckless'

In terms of the self funding - as mentioned my parents home will pay for the care for about 3-4 year BUT I have to sell it first! I had wanted SS to put a charge (I know another person that they have done this for) on the house and pay the care bill and I would pay them back when I sold the house. They now dont seem willing to do this if I choose that home.

Once my dad goes into care home my mum would revert to self funding too, so if they wont do the charge thing first I think would need to pay myself in the interim till I sell the house. The bill in terms of my shortfall between income and costs for both my mum and dad would be £3345 a month!! I could do this for just 6 months. Which puts loads of pressure on me to sell the house quickly and maybe not get the best price.

So ideally I would like social services to help - I have not really got my head around how it all works yet.

Would the care home be willing to 'roll up' the fees, as it were, until the house is sold? I am sure I have heard of care homes being willing to do this, though presumably there would have to be some formal signed agreement.

 

[flossielime]

Thanks
I will ask them about rolling up fees - my guess would be they would charge interest
but will definitely investigate.

 

[WILLIAMR]

Councils are under pressure to stay within their budgets and the assessor wanted a daughter I helped to sell the house she was living in in case her mother did not qualify for CHC funding in 12 months time.
The house was jointly owned by her mother and herself.
We checked with the care home nurse and she said she her chances of being alive in 6 months time were very slim.
The mother died a few weeks later.
All the council was interested in was not paying for the mother's care and could not care less they would have been adding further disruption to the daughters life at a very upsetting time to cover costs which never happened.

William