Exactly.In fact,it states so in the Care and Support statutory guidance,annexe C,paragraph 46,sub section D....
Jointly owned home.
- Thread starter Kapow
- Start date
Of course you don't have to pay top up fees...but then you risk having to move them to some ,shall we say,less habitable homes.It would also upset my husband as he is really settled and it all boils down to the fact that LA's budgets are too low...that's why they want us to top up the difference.
I have been told by the LA that I cannot touch his money at all,his money must be in a seperate account,and that I must transfer over by standing order his state pension and half his private pension.Also half his savings(the exact amount they require is stipulated).I have two bills outstanding to pay for his care(not the top ups)totalling just under £3,000....
It would seem that all the financial assessment has done is to split our savings right down the middle..my husbands room is LA part funded and his contribution is £250 a week...yet they have taken half his savings,half of mine(they were in joint accounts that's why they can!)all his state pension and half his private pension...and my husbands outgoings are £250 a week? They haven't looked at my outgoings,merely split the savings in half.I have contacted the LA and asked them to relook at the assessment because I will be left with £100 a month after bills.I am 64 years of age and both myself and my husband have saved so hard and bless him,he is simply unaware.worth checking for any eligibility for benefits
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maybe call the support line for their suggestions .... it can't be sustainable to pay a top-up fee and be left unable to pay necessary bills ... I thought an LA had to ensure that the spouse was left able to afford to live
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If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.www.alzheimers.org.uk
This seems somewhat at odds with my experience but in other ways similar. Our jointly owned house has been disregarded. Since the end of December my wife's contribution to her care is the whole of her state pension plus half her occupational pension (the other half is deemed to have been donated to me) plus a tariff calculated on the value of her assets. Statutory personal allowance and pension savings credit are reductions against the total payable.
I have not been asked to set up direct debits. Her pensions are paid as normal into her bank account. She is billed for her contribution every 4 weeks. As Attorney I pay this by bank transfer. I retain control over her account and remaining assets and can use these for her benefit e.g. to buy new clothes or shoes. I would not expect her to contribute to household costs now that she no longer lives here.
I am fortunate that my pensions and savings are enough to cover all daily living costs and household expenses. Her home accepts the Local Authority rate so no top up payments have been requested. If they had been then my response would be that I could not afford to pay. It would be up to the LA to deal with this.
I am not sure if any of the above helps but hopefully it might.
I have not been asked to set up direct debits. Her pensions are paid as normal into her bank account. She is billed for her contribution every 4 weeks. As Attorney I pay this by bank transfer. I retain control over her account and remaining assets and can use these for her benefit e.g. to buy new clothes or shoes. I would not expect her to contribute to household costs now that she no longer lives here.
I am fortunate that my pensions and savings are enough to cover all daily living costs and household expenses. Her home accepts the Local Authority rate so no top up payments have been requested. If they had been then my response would be that I could not afford to pay. It would be up to the LA to deal with this.
I am not sure if any of the above helps but hopefully it might.
When your PWD goes into care, do they need a separate bank account? We currently have a joint one, and I have my own.
It’s always advisable to have your own separate accounts. Your assets are not taken into account when it comes to paying for care.
They cnnot take YOUR savings into account, It HIS finances they asses not ours.
Any joint account will be deemed half and half, and they only take HIS half into account Not yours.
If they have factored yours into the equasion, they have done it incorrectly.
Do you mean his contribution is £250 a week?
Any joint account will be deemed half and half, and they only take HIS half into account Not yours.
If they have factored yours into the equasion, they have done it incorrectly.
Do you mean his contribution is £250 a week?
If you have joint accounts this is what they do. Thats why its always a good idea to split your accounts, so that your individual finances are separate. Then they will only look at his accounts, not yours as well.
Joint savings are not an issue unless there is a significant mismatch between contributions. If you have each put in roughly 50% then the Local Authority assuming this is fine. However, if your contribution to joint savings has been the greater part it may seem unfair when the LA assumes a 50/50 split. But that is what it will do.
Yes,my husbands contribution is £250 per week,our savings have been split in half,they are in joint accounts,and apparently if they are,my savings are taken into account...this is what they told me.They have also told me that my husbands share of the savings must be put into another seperate account,plus transfer over all his state pension,half his private pension and that he is not allowed to pay for his care from his savings,only his pensions...?
They are,but they are saying that with his state pension and half his private pension this takes him over the limit.I am so fed up of this now..plus on Thursday,got a call from the care home to say they had not been paid the top up fees for this month...I said I haven't received the bill yet,and it comes from the LA...the care home more or less said if they don't receive the money they will have to rethink my husbands stay there....I told her,rather politely for me,to not threaten me or I will be seeking legal advice.
hi @Kapow
I think the LA may be giving some misinformation
I think it would help you to chat in real time with an advisor on the support line, so you can ask questions and they can talk you through the situation
www.alzheimers.org.uk
I think the LA may be giving some misinformation
I think it would help you to chat in real time with an advisor on the support line, so you can ask questions and they can talk you through the situation
Dementia Support Line
If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.
www.alzheimers.org.uk
Oh deary me...I went down to our bank yesterday to transfer over half my husbands savings,his state pension and half his private pension.I took all the relevant documents to enable this to happen,only to be told that the bank cannot transfer over into the new account any pensions...I have to contact the relevant pensions by phone,give them the new account details and they will transfer the pensions over..wrong! One of the pensions is British aerospace,spoke to them,,,"We don't take any bank details over the phone,even though you have POA,we will send out a form(middle of next week)fill it in,send back but it will be early December before it will be fully processed"! The state pension...rang them...they tell me that they have no POA document listed to me anywhere in the system,even though I could provide her the date it was sent,recorded delivery,and as such,they cannot deal with me until they receive it! Bear in mind my husband has another bill due on the 27th of this month......the LA say he can't use any of his savings to pay for his room,only his pensions.Imagine trying to explain on the phone to someone! I was advised to open the new account by the LA themselves and now there are no funds to meet the bill going in.Even the lady at the bank said she deals a lot with people opening new accounts for similar reasons and she says she thinks the LA have got their figures wrong.I think I am going to have to contact the LA and get someone to come to the house and then I can explain the whole rigmarole to them.hi @Kapow
I think the LA may be giving some misinformation
I think it would help you to chat in real time with an advisor on the support line, so you can ask questions and they can talk you through the situation
Dementia Support Line
If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.
this may help
www.alzheimers.org.uk
the financial assessment should NOT take into account YOUR income or assets, except to ensure that you are left with enough to live on, though that includes you claiming any eligible benefits
your house is disregarded as you live in it
for your husband:
taken into account are:-
all savings in his name only
half of any joint savings
his state pension
half any private pension (the other half is 'gifted' to you)
if he has savings above £23250 he will have to use his income (including Attendance Allowance) and savings until the savings reach that figure,
between £23250 and £14250 the LA begin to contribute also, at a set rate they should explain, if his income does not cover the fees
when his savings fall below £14250 and his income does not cover the fees, the LA take on the funding BUT your husband will contribute his state pension and half any private pension except for the Personal Expenses Allowance of £24.90 per week to pay for any expenses he has eg hair cut, and Attendance Allowance ceases
his savings are his and cannot be used to pay any care fees, but they can be used to pay for things for him, and as he retains a financial interest in your marital home he can pay half the buildings insurance and half any necessary maintenance
if the care home fees are above the amount the LA agrees to pay, a family member can agree to pay a top-up fee if they can afford it (the LA should ensure that it can be afforded) .... the LA must offer a care home placement that does not require a top-up fee however this may not be in the care home the family have chosen
it is probably best if you and your husband have separate accounts (to ensure your savings and income are protected) .... with a regular Direct Debit of half his private pension paid from his current account into yours
Paying for care home fees in England
Paying for a care home can be expensive, but you may be eligible to financial help from your local authority. In some cases, you might be able to get financial support from the NHS.
www.alzheimers.org.uk
the financial assessment should NOT take into account YOUR income or assets, except to ensure that you are left with enough to live on, though that includes you claiming any eligible benefits
your house is disregarded as you live in it
for your husband:
taken into account are:-
all savings in his name only
half of any joint savings
his state pension
half any private pension (the other half is 'gifted' to you)
if he has savings above £23250 he will have to use his income (including Attendance Allowance) and savings until the savings reach that figure,
between £23250 and £14250 the LA begin to contribute also, at a set rate they should explain, if his income does not cover the fees
when his savings fall below £14250 and his income does not cover the fees, the LA take on the funding BUT your husband will contribute his state pension and half any private pension except for the Personal Expenses Allowance of £24.90 per week to pay for any expenses he has eg hair cut, and Attendance Allowance ceases
his savings are his and cannot be used to pay any care fees, but they can be used to pay for things for him, and as he retains a financial interest in your marital home he can pay half the buildings insurance and half any necessary maintenance
if the care home fees are above the amount the LA agrees to pay, a family member can agree to pay a top-up fee if they can afford it (the LA should ensure that it can be afforded) .... the LA must offer a care home placement that does not require a top-up fee however this may not be in the care home the family have chosen
it is probably best if you and your husband have separate accounts (to ensure your savings and income are protected) .... with a regular Direct Debit of half his private pension paid from his current account into yours
what a mess @Kapow ... so unhelpful
let the LA and the care home know what is happening, in writing eg email if you can .... it's clear that you are doing your best to comply with arranging payments, and you cannot make the companies/institutions do something different than they tell you .... the LA should have come across this before, same for the care home (their reaction is unkind, but may be a signal of how they will deal with financial issues)
just a thought
will the banks agree to make the joint accounts into individual accounts for your husband ... so. I assume, the pensions can continue to be paid into that account
and you set up separate accounts for yourself
and do not pay anything yourself especially if that leaves you out of pocket right now, you have a right to your own financial 'security' as the care fees are your husband's .... not easy for you, I appreciate, but I worry about setting a precedent if you pay from your finances
let the LA and the care home know what is happening, in writing eg email if you can .... it's clear that you are doing your best to comply with arranging payments, and you cannot make the companies/institutions do something different than they tell you .... the LA should have come across this before, same for the care home (their reaction is unkind, but may be a signal of how they will deal with financial issues)
just a thought
will the banks agree to make the joint accounts into individual accounts for your husband ... so. I assume, the pensions can continue to be paid into that account
and you set up separate accounts for yourself
and do not pay anything yourself especially if that leaves you out of pocket right now, you have a right to your own financial 'security' as the care fees are your husband's .... not easy for you, I appreciate, but I worry about setting a precedent if you pay from your finances
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Hi @Kapow so sorry to read of the issues you are being faced with its additional worries you really don't need. My partner isn't in care home but its possible that in the future we may have to consider he will need it, not because of dementia but Parkinson's. I know there is a slightly higher risk of dementia developing and it is a constant worry as my dad had mixed dementia. We have been together for over 21 years but not married. Reading your story has really highlighted that we did the best thing and kept our own money separate. We do have a small amount in a joint account for household running costs which only he actually now pays into. I wonder if anyone following your thread can tell me is holding a home as Tenants In Common viewed any differently to Joint home owners when it comes to LA assessment. I am now 62 years my partner 78 years so think our home would be disregarded but not entirely sure. The ownership is not a 50/50 split and I own the majority of it. My partner does not have significant savings and there is still a small mortgage left on our home which he has always paid but in joint names so I assume I would be liable to continue paying it. We have actually been trying to think ahead as we are aware his condition will get much worse. I really do hope to look after him for as long as possible and am younger but am trying to be realistic too. We have just made arrangements for one bank account that he had for his private pension to go into and some direct debits actually transferred to the same bank ( his sole account) as we both use so as to get everything in the one institution and then close it. The private pension company did send us a form to fill in to change the payment details which took about 8 days to arrive and we are now awaiting confirmation they have received the request back. I do hope this all gets sorted for you and will keep my fingers crossed. I also think its terrible the care home are not being more understanding.
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