Am I correct in thinking that I can be paid by my father as his carer (or effectively pay myself as I have legal power if attorney) for the daily care I am providing without having to pay tax and NI. This note seems to suggest I can but it is not clear at the end. Does anyone have experience of this. https://assets.publishing.service.g...3/Family-care-payments-practice-note-SD14.pdf
Paying myself as family carer
- Thread starter Bettusboo
- Start date
hi @Bettusboo
it's a contentious area, so you'd be best to contact the OPG, explain your situation and ask for their thoughts
the info on that link is aimed at Deputies, rather than Attorneys
it's a contentious area, so you'd be best to contact the OPG, explain your situation and ask for their thoughts
the info on that link is aimed at Deputies, rather than Attorneys
@Bettusboo
It’s dangerous ground. Even that link has
for POAs
”The position of attorneys acting under a lasting or enduring power of attorney will depend on the specific powers granted under the power. “
and even Deputyships
“Lay deputies
Where a lay deputy is both providing care and taking a payment, the Public Guardian will advise the deputy to seek court approval to avoid a breach of their fiduciary duty.
The Public Guardian may also require a lay deputy to seek court approval if they are paying someone they are closely connected to – for example, a spouse or child – where the decision to pay may be influenced by the close relationship rather than objectively made in the best interests of the client.”
It’s dangerous ground. Even that link has
for POAs
”The position of attorneys acting under a lasting or enduring power of attorney will depend on the specific powers granted under the power. “
and even Deputyships
“Lay deputies
Where a lay deputy is both providing care and taking a payment, the Public Guardian will advise the deputy to seek court approval to avoid a breach of their fiduciary duty.
The Public Guardian may also require a lay deputy to seek court approval if they are paying someone they are closely connected to – for example, a spouse or child – where the decision to pay may be influenced by the close relationship rather than objectively made in the best interests of the client.”
Last edited:
As an aside for anybody currently applying for LPA.
Specialist solicitors may have experience of this.
Specialist solicitors may have experience of this.
This raises the question as to whether a clause inserted in the LPA application allowing Family Care Payments would be accepted by the COP or whether it would be rejected and an application for it to be struck out would have to be made.
I was advised by a solicitor that I could be a paid carer or a power of attorney but not both. I was only able to claim carer's allowance until the age of 66 but was, however, able to claim petrol expenses for my twice weekly trips / taking her to & from hospital appointments etc. because I could demonstrate that it was an expense that I would not have otherwise incurred.
The guidance quoted is for Deputies and hence does not apply in this case. As for payment to someone holding LPA, I feel that this might clash with their responsibility as Attorney but that is just my lay opinion. At the very least it would suggest that all other, professional paid for options have been looked into and there are good reasons not to use them.
How much is paid, how that is justified and how records are kept are all points at issue.
The answer would seem to be that this would need to be discussed with both the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) and HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).
How much is paid, how that is justified and how records are kept are all points at issue.
The answer would seem to be that this would need to be discussed with both the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) and HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).
I struggle with fully understanding the rules on this.
I've always believed, as an LPA holder, I can't reward myself but I can as an LPA holder pay someone who isn't. I can even double OH carers so what he pays will go from £1500 - £3000pm but I can't pay myself £10 per day for acting as his second carer.
I wouldn't wish to pay myself but it's the principle that I find upsetting as tho' my contribution to his care is worthless.
Obviously I do understand the reasoning behind the rules but I find it offensive to be assumed that I am not trustworthy.
I've always believed, as an LPA holder, I can't reward myself but I can as an LPA holder pay someone who isn't. I can even double OH carers so what he pays will go from £1500 - £3000pm but I can't pay myself £10 per day for acting as his second carer.
I wouldn't wish to pay myself but it's the principle that I find upsetting as tho' my contribution to his care is worthless.
Obviously I do understand the reasoning behind the rules but I find it offensive to be assumed that I am not trustworthy.
The person may be eligible for Class 3 Carer's Credit
Carer's Credit
Carer's Credit helps carers fill gaps in your National Insurance record to help you qualify for the State Pensions and other benefits - what you'll get, eligibility and how to claim
I have had to give up work in order to care for my dad and am significantly out of pocket. I would not choose doing this and have been somewhat put in a corner by my dads distress about the idea of residential care. I’m also unable to live with my own family most of the time because of the situation. So I feel that it is right that I am paid something for all the care provided and all the upheaval. My sister is also LPA and would like me to be paid. I guess she might be able to pay me as we have joint responsibility on the bank accounts. Not sure where I go to get the answer to this. Is it HMRC and if so which department ?
are you claiming carers allowance? If so, I’m not sure you can get paid twice for doing the same thing.
contact the OPG to ask their advice, but I think you’ll like be told no.
hi @Bettusboo
you really need to talk with the OPG
contact details at the bottom of this linked page
www.gov.uk
sadly, many carers who give up work find themselves financially affected (I lived off my savings and carer's allowance)
maybe it's time to re-consider how much you are doing and giving up as you are entitled to a full life of your own, and your own family need you ... I wonder whether your father of old would want you putting his wants before your own life and those of your family (and what you would say to your children, were they in the future to face your situation)
you really need to talk with the OPG
contact details at the bottom of this linked page
Office of the Public Guardian
Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) helps people in England and Wales to stay in control of decisions about their health and finance and make important decisions for others who cannot decide for themselves. OPG is an executive agency, sponsored by the Ministry of Justice .
sadly, many carers who give up work find themselves financially affected (I lived off my savings and carer's allowance)
maybe it's time to re-consider how much you are doing and giving up as you are entitled to a full life of your own, and your own family need you ... I wonder whether your father of old would want you putting his wants before your own life and those of your family (and what you would say to your children, were they in the future to face your situation)
I fully understand your reasoning and quite agree with you.
It was basically explained to me was that as a POA, I had to be above reproach and could not provide any grounds that could be misconstrued as an abuse of responsibility... nor could I be seen to possibly taking advantage of a vulnerable person. Ironically, my Mum would have been quite happy for me to be her paid carer and I did everything anyway because she kicked out every official package of care organised
Very true and I’d rather not be doing it but I seem to have no choice. He won’t go into residential care and the shortage of carers around generally means I’m struggling to find anyone to cover enough to allow me to get on with my life.hi @Bettusboo
you really need to talk with the OPG
contact details at the bottom of this linked page
Office of the Public Guardian
Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) helps people in England and Wales to stay in control of decisions about their health and finance and make important decisions for others who cannot decide for themselves. OPG is an executive agency, sponsored by the Ministry of Justice .
sadly, many carers who give up work find themselves financially affected (I lived off my savings and carer's allowance)
maybe it's time to re-consider how much you are doing and giving up as you are entitled to a full life of your own, and your own family need you ... I wonder whether your father of old would want you putting his wants before your own life and those of your family (and what you would say to your children, were they in the future to face your situation)
It does annoy me that it’s OK to use their money to pay for expensive agency carers but not pay yourself for doing the same job (and usually more than the same job!), which in most cases would be much much cheaper. Infuriating and illogical IMO. And to people who site financial abuse as a reason - people who are that unscrupulous would find a way to do it, rules or no rules.
And I absolutely do not believe that paying myself well below the minimum wage and well below what carers would be paid for the valuable role I’m playing while my own life is put on hold could reasonably be misconstrued as an abuse of responsibility. Quite the opposite in fact. Any reasonable person would see that there is no hint of abuse of a vulnerable person and if anything I’m the person being taken advantage of.I fully understand your reasoning and quite agree with you.
It was basically explained to me was that as a POA, I had to be above reproach and could not provide any grounds that could be misconstrued as an abuse of responsibility... nor could I be seen to possibly taking advantage of a vulnerable person. Ironically, my Mum would have been quite happy for me to be her paid carer and I did everything anyway because she kicked out every official package of care organised
As
You are now legally bound to act in the PWD’s best interest. That means accepting Caerer’s Allowance IS your payment for looking after them, nothing more is due to you.
As POA you must see yourself as your relative’s representative, not relative. That ceased when you took POA.
You are now legally bound to act in the PWD’s best interest. That means accepting Caerer’s Allowance IS your payment for looking after them, nothing more is due to you.
The link provided by the OP, although referring to Deputies rather than Attorneys, also says:
”The guidance applies to Deputies appointed by the Court under a Finance and Property Order. The position of Attorneys will depend on the specific powers granted under the power. However, Attorneys may find the factors to consider a useful guide when making best interests decisions about payments for care.” (My italics).
I haven’t got time time to read the whole document, but will do so when I can. It certainly doesn’t rule out family care payments, (unless as quoted above your POA document rules them out).
”The guidance applies to Deputies appointed by the Court under a Finance and Property Order. The position of Attorneys will depend on the specific powers granted under the power. However, Attorneys may find the factors to consider a useful guide when making best interests decisions about payments for care.” (My italics).
I haven’t got time time to read the whole document, but will do so when I can. It certainly doesn’t rule out family care payments, (unless as quoted above your POA document rules them out).