I absolutely endorse what big I has said in his last post. Respectfully, I feel that your feelings go far beyond the normal feelings of grief and loss to be expected of someone in your situation. You appear to be stuck in a destructive cycle of self-recrimination and feelings of rejection. I'm not a doctor but I think that your posts indicate a pattern of rumination which could be a sign that you are depressed. I believe that you might need more than counselling but it's not for me to say what. I certainly feel that you should go and see your doctor to talk about how you are feeling, and for a general physical health check as I suspect that you might be neglecting your own health.
Dementia’s journey
- Thread starter Dutchman
- Start date
Hello @big l . I wanted to reply to you because what you’ve said is both honest and heartwarming. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could know what our love ones were actually thinking, to really know that we were loved in some way deep in that dementia mind.
When I’m with in moments of quiet and seclusion I tell her so many times that I love her and, even though we’re advised not to ask searching questions, I ask anyway if she loves me as well. Can’t help myself. But, of course, if she felt love for me she may miss me and I want that. I can’t win!!
She smiles and I can see that she can’t really understand. But I pretend that she does. She smiles and all I can do is hope, but then I leave and I’m on my own again with unresolved sadness.
Thanks again. P
you seem to suggesting that I should be feeling better by now as if grief like mine has a time period. I’m not depressed (clinically I’m not sure of the scale of that) and I’m fine physically and exercise regularly and cook healthy meals.
Anyway what is normal? My situation is one of longing for a wife who I love and miss like life itself. ( I would give my life for hers in a heartbeat). Normal ( as far as I understand) is expecting to be like I am without a timeframe. All I do in my posts is express my inner anguish, and that could seen as ruminating, but many on here are also struggling exactly like me and my heart goes out to them in fellow sympathy.
Peter
Peter I read all of your posts but don’t comment much as I don’t feel able to give you any advice that hasn’t been said many times.
I also agree with the last few comments that you appear to be stuck and are enjoying punishing yourself for Bridget’s dementia taking her away from you and the life you expected to have. It’s as if you want to punish yourself too.
I agree there is no normal timeframe with grief etc, but you do need further help here as you are not accepting of your life as it is now, and as I’ve said previously… you are torturing yourself each day….. I say this totally with experience of loss myself and out of concern for you and your mental health x
I also agree with the last few comments that you appear to be stuck and are enjoying punishing yourself for Bridget’s dementia taking her away from you and the life you expected to have. It’s as if you want to punish yourself too.
I agree there is no normal timeframe with grief etc, but you do need further help here as you are not accepting of your life as it is now, and as I’ve said previously… you are torturing yourself each day….. I say this totally with experience of loss myself and out of concern for you and your mental health x
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I'm just back from visiting and have been taking time to ruminate (not sure there's anything wrong with ruminating!) on your recent posts. Margaret is now effectively bed-bound and incapable of "normal" conversation so she is incapable of reciprocating my love for her in any obvious way. She appears to be in a world of her own but a world I can occasionally glimpse and respond to. Judging from what the staff have told me my visits are helpful beyond just the physical chore of getting her to take some sustenance and fluid. They say she is "stronger" when I have been, whatever that may mean. I think that it is probably the familiarity of my voice and the sort of conversation I have with her which is, in the main, one-sided but I try deliberately to keep it in the style of the domestic conversations we've had over the years and I try to respond as best I can to the odd thing she says which I can relate to a situation from years ago. Sometimes she acknowledges, other times not but at least sometimes I perceive a distinct impression that my response to her is comforting - as much from body language/facial expression as anything.
I think that my situation may be the same as yours, @Dutchman, in that Bridget values your conversation even if she can't respond in the way she used to. To quote Christina Rossetti (again!) if there is in her "a vestige of the thoughts" that once she had then your presence, your love, your tenderness will I believe strike a chord deep down in "the silent land" and she will, like Margaret, perhaps be the stronger for it. Margaret can no longer express her love for me and I accept that it may not be a meaningful concept in her world and I wonder if the same goes for Bridget. Believe that she still values you, that deep down there is something unique that binds you, that you have a treasure trove of life experiences between you and carry on loving her even if dementia has robbed her of the ability to show her love for you. Just believe that it's still there and don't be so hard on yourself.
Ps. I got Margaret to take a full milkshake and 95% of her calorie shot so, so to continue the football analogy, I feel able to claim a home win. God bless
I think that my situation may be the same as yours, @Dutchman, in that Bridget values your conversation even if she can't respond in the way she used to. To quote Christina Rossetti (again!) if there is in her "a vestige of the thoughts" that once she had then your presence, your love, your tenderness will I believe strike a chord deep down in "the silent land" and she will, like Margaret, perhaps be the stronger for it. Margaret can no longer express her love for me and I accept that it may not be a meaningful concept in her world and I wonder if the same goes for Bridget. Believe that she still values you, that deep down there is something unique that binds you, that you have a treasure trove of life experiences between you and carry on loving her even if dementia has robbed her of the ability to show her love for you. Just believe that it's still there and don't be so hard on yourself.
Ps. I got Margaret to take a full milkshake and 95% of her calorie shot so, so to continue the football analogy, I feel able to claim a home win. God bless
Thanks everyone for your understanding and kind remarks. I’m not one to hide feelings away. Perhaps I overthink things, perhaps dwell on the negative, perhaps you’re right that I am punishing myself ( I’m not happy doing it) and should accept the whole situation more. I don’t know.
Perhaps the bottom line is that I’m very lonely for her and I’m not handling this at all well. I can’t seem to move on and you’d think after 2 years in the home I could, but my feelings are powerful and were demonstrated today at the home when I had to go to her room in tears after seeing again that look of vacancy and lack of response when I said I love you and miss you.
Yes I know it’s the dementia and I should be able to separate her illness from her character but this longing gets the better of me. So there it is and perhaps I am taking too long to adjust and see, with some distance, the illness for what it is. I wish I could “get over it” because then I wouldn’t wake each morning
with Bridget the first thing on my mind.
Perhaps the bottom line is that I’m very lonely for her and I’m not handling this at all well. I can’t seem to move on and you’d think after 2 years in the home I could, but my feelings are powerful and were demonstrated today at the home when I had to go to her room in tears after seeing again that look of vacancy and lack of response when I said I love you and miss you.
Yes I know it’s the dementia and I should be able to separate her illness from her character but this longing gets the better of me. So there it is and perhaps I am taking too long to adjust and see, with some distance, the illness for what it is. I wish I could “get over it” because then I wouldn’t wake each morning
with Bridget the first thing on my mind.
Good Lord, Peter, I haven’t got over it, as it were yet and Keith died two years ago. Kindred
It's not a question of 'getting over it' but coming to terms with the reality of Bridget's illness which has stripped her of the ability to connect with Peter in the way she used to before she was ill. Peter still has the same feelings for Bridget but she is unable to respond to those feelings because her brain is being destroyed by her illness. Searching for signs of love on Bridget's part is a heart breaking exercise because she cannot demonstrate her love even if she is able to experience that feeling.
I don't think that I'm going to say any more on the subject as I don't want to upset Peter, or anyone else.
I don't think that I'm going to say any more on the subject as I don't want to upset Peter, or anyone else.
Please @Violet Jane , you are being sensible and I’m being challenged by the enormity of her lack of ability to communicate through dementia. Please don’t feel bad about your comments. You want me to feel better and I really appreciate the time and trouble you’ve taken to talk to me and others here. Bless you for your kindness
I’m so glad Margaret responded with the drink. Little triumphs ?. @blackmortimer you are an example to me in that you are facing these trying times with courage and love. We will never really know what our love ones are thinking or where their mind is because that’s the tragedy of dementia . I have to guess Bridget holds a little certain something for me otherwise if I knew she for certain she didn’t care at all I’d be very upset.
Bless you for comments and help
Thank you for your kind words, @Dutchman . I'm sure that like Margaret Bridget still retains memories of the good times pre-dementia and that you're undoubtedly part of that.
Aren't memories two edged swords? Two were presented to me today. This morning I had to go into town to transact various bits of business and because it was market day I had to park in a place that I hadn't parked in for some long time and then walk to the town centre passing what used to be a rather old-fashioned haberdasher's shop that Margaret used to frequent for sewing type sundries, the last occasion being a sunny day like today and when dementia was just beginning to appear so the visit stuck in my mind. Now the shop was closed and empty, probably a victim of Covid, and a sad piquant reminder of what in retrospect was I suppose the end of an era as far as Margaret was concerned, Then this evening after coming back from the home, the dog insisted on a walk and I went for a short one round a field that Margaret and I used to go to fairly often and which she always called Tesco's field" - not because it really had anything to do with Tesco but because it's across the road from the little Tesco Express that we went to and indeed I still do. But it was a reminder of the days when the dog was a puppy and we used to take her there gradually extending the walk as she grew - again long before dementia appeared. So, two bitter sweet memories leaving me a bit tearful and feeling "if only" there was some magic potion that could take the dementia away and restore the real Margaret to me. But I guess we've all been there haven't we?
God bless
Aren't memories two edged swords? Two were presented to me today. This morning I had to go into town to transact various bits of business and because it was market day I had to park in a place that I hadn't parked in for some long time and then walk to the town centre passing what used to be a rather old-fashioned haberdasher's shop that Margaret used to frequent for sewing type sundries, the last occasion being a sunny day like today and when dementia was just beginning to appear so the visit stuck in my mind. Now the shop was closed and empty, probably a victim of Covid, and a sad piquant reminder of what in retrospect was I suppose the end of an era as far as Margaret was concerned, Then this evening after coming back from the home, the dog insisted on a walk and I went for a short one round a field that Margaret and I used to go to fairly often and which she always called Tesco's field" - not because it really had anything to do with Tesco but because it's across the road from the little Tesco Express that we went to and indeed I still do. But it was a reminder of the days when the dog was a puppy and we used to take her there gradually extending the walk as she grew - again long before dementia appeared. So, two bitter sweet memories leaving me a bit tearful and feeling "if only" there was some magic potion that could take the dementia away and restore the real Margaret to me. But I guess we've all been there haven't we?
God bless
Yes indeed @blackmortimer. I regularly see Bridget coming towards me in the high street as she used to meet me and we’d go for a coffee. It’s tricks of the mind like this that make me catch my breath.
Just come back from the cinema with a friend after seeing the new Cumberbatch film. It’s great to talk about it afterwards just as me and Bridget used to do. How I’ve missed that.
One day in the very distant future they will be able to restore dementia patients back to health- I’m sure of it. Bit like having no cure for an illness in Christ’s time and now we have. Cry for Margaret and yourself as I do for Bridget.
Peter
Just come back from the cinema with a friend after seeing the new Cumberbatch film. It’s great to talk about it afterwards just as me and Bridget used to do. How I’ve missed that.
One day in the very distant future they will be able to restore dementia patients back to health- I’m sure of it. Bit like having no cure for an illness in Christ’s time and now we have. Cry for Margaret and yourself as I do for Bridget.
Peter
What a difference a day makes. Yesterday, here in East Anglia, it still felt like high summer, the farmers finishing off the harvest, everything bathed in sunlight. Today it's mists and mellow fruitfulness in abundance, still warm but an autumnal warmth that reminds you that summer's gone. I find this sad, being a spring and summer person. I don't react well to the impending death of the year. It reminds me that this was always Margaret's favourite season, particularly when the children were young, with Christmas being the crown of it all. So this year I'm doubly sad - sad for the loss of summer and sad because Margaret is no longer able to enjoy the autumn. Not only not able to enjoy but because of dementia being deprived of even the idea of autumn and the memory of all the things we used to do when the children were young. Most of all I cry when I think of Christmas as it was then and how it will be this year. Still, at least I should be able to be with her on Christmas day even though I doubt she'll know anything about it. Then I tell myself we must have hope - that's what makes us human. I'll talk to her about these things when I visit this afternoon. God bless
I might have spoken too soon! After a distinctly autumnal morning, this afternoon summer put in a reappearance. In fact Margaret's room, which faces south-ish was flooded with bright sunlight and I had to pull the curtains to to prevent me from being blinded. I tried talking to Margaret about the changing seasons but she was not very responsive. Most of my visit she was asleep although she did have a milk shake which these days counts as a minor triumph. It was all in all one of those visits where one feels that one hasn't really achieved anything. But I shall go tomorrow and perhaps take the weekend off. Now the dog commands my attention so I'd better see to her! God bless,
Dutchman, having read back over your posts and replies since 2019, the 'respondents' seem to fall into two distinct categories. The ones that say 'come on, you can enjoy yourself - it's all right to feel pleasure, but first you need professional help to sort out the emotions that are causing you such turmoil .' And the other group? They are joining you in the practise of almost searching out reasons to grieve unrequitedly for your' lost lives'. Forwards or stationary? The choice is yours. Dear Dutchman, sorry, but try not to cry when you go to see Bridget, she will be aware of emotion and mood, but not have a clue what is upsetting you. It isn't her fault she has dementia, so try to smile and be cheerful for her, hard though it is.
I have probably fallen into both those camps over the past few months. I eventually decided that Dutchman's writing his 'diary' here was a kind of therapy for him - and fair enough.
Yes, I agree. But it's hard to read his posts and not feel his quandary without responding.
