Nasty neighbour

[Suesue]

Hi there, just looking for some advice really.
My mum has vascular and alzheimers, diagnosed 2017. She is very into her routines.
The problem is ....before covid she used to have an occasional cig in the street with her neighbours son (who is having chemo for a brain tumour). Unfortunately it was a routine that she enjoyed and probably happened a couple of times a week. Since covid the son rarely comes out, mum misses her routine so pops over the road looking for him. The father unfortunately isnt a nice guy. He tells mum to go away which obviously she doesnt understand. He has now on a few occasions thrown water over her to get rid of her! i'm not happy with this at all. What should I do....any advice very welcome. I have spoken to him and asked him not to throw water over her as its abuse....his reply was to lock her in!!

 

[jennifer1967]

have you told him about the dementia or maybe has he a wife that could be more approachable. throwing water over her is abuse and i suppose you could phone the police for them to have words with him and a warning. can you take her for a walk in a different direction. more understanding by your neighbour would be the ideal and i expect he is worried about his son with chemo lowering his immune system and covid as well but no need to do that to a vulnerable lady

 

[Suesue]

have you told him about the dementia or maybe has he a wife that could be more approachable. throwing water over her is abuse and i suppose you could phone the police for them to have words with him and a warning. can you take her for a walk in a different direction. more understanding by your neighbour would be the ideal and i expect he is worried about his son with chemo lowering his immune system and covid as well but no need to do that to a vulnerable lady

Thanks Jennifer, yes the neighbour knows about her dementia, his own father was in a home with dementia too until he passed away last year. I've tried to reason with mum and explained that the neighbours son is poorly but she clearly doesnt understand that. I've asked her to keep away. Unfortunately I don't live with ,mum and dad so can't be there to guide her every time she pops out for a ciggie. I know mum can be a nuisance keep popping over looking for the son but I dont know what the solution is. TBH he's a horrible man anyway with no regards for anyones feelings. His son David is in his 30's so I appreciate he wants to keep him safe but then he will pop out the front for a cig and if mum sees him shes there in a shot!

 

[Jessbow]

Difficult but really not appropriate to throw water over her.

Have you asked him to ignore her door knocking if thats what she does? How persistant is she?

 

[Suesue]

Difficult but really not appropriate to throw water over her.

Have you asked him to ignore her door knocking if thats what she does? How persistant is she?

Hi Jess,
She doesnt knock the door but if she sees any of the family out the front or in the garage she goes over. I think she just tries to talk to them. They've been friends for years but obviously she isnt the same lady now. I just think its sad that he has resorted to this. I messaged the son just before xmas when it happened before saying that i wasnt happy his dad threw water over her... her clothes and slippers were wet through, and it was freezing out!
I just wondered if there was a way forward without it turning nasty really!

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Suesue
to me it's already turned nasty ... you simply don't throw water at anyone, especially a vulnerable elder ... it can't happen again, not in winter and with the possibility that your mum may not dry out and warm up properly
personally, I would speak to the police ... they can be very understanding of situations where ddmentia is involvec
and contact your mum's Local Authority Adult Servicds to let them know that your mum is a 'vulnerable adult' who is putting herself 'at risk of harm' by her behaviour

 

[Suesue]

hi @Suesue
to me it's already turned nasty ... you simply don't throw water at anyone, especially a vulnerable elder ... it can't happen again, not in winter and with the possibility that your mum may not dry out and warm up properly
personally, I would speak to the police ... they can be very understanding of situations where ddmentia is involvec
and contact your mum's Local Authority Adult Servicds to let them know that your mum is a 'vulnerable adult' who is putting herself 'at risk of harm' by her behaviour

Thank you....yes I think you're right I need to see what the police say and take it from there.

 

[MartinWL]

Throwing water is assault, albeit not at the most serious end of the scale, so that is a police matter. He is entitled to tell her to go away, though. It is a difficult situation for everyone including the bad tempered neighbour.

 

[Suesue]

Throwing water is assault, albeit not at the most serious end of the scale, so that is a police matter. He is entitled to tell her to go away, though. It is a difficult situation for everyone including the bad tempered neighbour.

Yes he does tell her to go away but apparently she calls him names, Mum never used to swear but it seems she does now if anyone is horrible to her! The neighbours are really frustrated with her as I am but i really cant see what i can do. Think they want me to get her in a home, which wont happen until it is absolutely necessary. I just wish some people were a little more understanding

 

[canary]

He should not throw water over her, but I can sort of see his point of view, His son will undoubtedly be shielding and I shouldnt think that your mum has any idea about socially distancing. He may well have got to the end of his tether.

You are not going to to be able to stop your mum going over there. Whatever anyone says she will not remember. If you write it down, she will ignore it. She will forget the anger on the part of the neighbour and even getting water thrown over her, five minutes later she will have no idea why she is wet. I think the situation will only escalate.

Once people with dementia get to the stage of annoying the neighbours they are usually pretty advanced. Mum got to the stage where the woman across the road from her contacted the police because she said mum was harassing her and mum started wandering the streets at night banging on neighbours doors. I was told about this by the neighbours and asked to make her stop - which was, of course, impossible. Im afraid it was not long after that she needed to move into a care home in order to keep her safe.

 

[Jessbow]

Hmmm, you didnt mention mum calling him names.

Sounds like the time has come where the resolution to the problem is to use daycare or residential care.

Problem is, she is beyond understanding, and much as the world needs to understand there comes a point when things have to change.

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @Suesue and welcome to Dementia Talking Point.
I agree the neighbour shouldn't have done this, but I can see his point of view and frustration at someone not doing what they have been asked to do. The whole covid situation makes things so much more difficult.
My mother was forever knocking on her neighbours door accusing them of all sorts of things. She also called the police about them, saying that they were conducting hate crimes against her. The neighbours were pretty forbearing all things considered, but it must have been very unpleasant for them. They used to send my brother recordings from their video door-bell of my mother banging on their door and screaming abuse at them, including once in a bath towel when mum thought they had stolen her electricity. Mum would agree with us, or the police to just ignore them, till the next time she was convinced they'd done something awful. The police were fantastic with mum, very gentle and kind, and mum would agree not to do it again and just ignore the neighbours, but of course as soon as they annoyed her again, off she would go.
You say that you don't want your mum to move into care, but I think it might be time to seriously consider it. I'm not sure if she has help coming in or how often you are there, but even if you were there twenty-four hours a day if your mum decides she wants to go out and talk to the neighbour it would be hard to stop her. My mother refused to have any help at home, and I could only get over to her place a couple of times a week. I moved her into care when she started going out drinking with random men in a local pub and brought at least one of them home. Again Mum would agree it was a silly thing to do till the next time she fancied some male company. Settling mum into a care home was far from plain sailing (she moved in May 2019), but at least I know she is safe.
Keep posting, you'll get lots of help and support here.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

It's certainly time someone stepped in before something really bad happens!

I appreciate that the neighbour is unpleasant to start with so he won't be easy to deal with. Perhaps you could offer him a different solution to throwing water and mutual name-calling? If he were to phone the police or social services whenever she turns up, saying 'an old lady with dementia keeps harrassing me and my family. She won't go away', they would have to come and deal with it.

As @Sarasa says, this may result in a temporary hiatus but more likely your mum will forget and do it all again next time she sees the neighbours or wants a cig. The neighbour will need to keep phoning social services each time until they realise your mum needs constant supervision and help. It's the best way to get her 'on the radar' and may hasten the move to a care home - which it would seem she needs now, to keep her safe.

You don't say what the neighbour's son's reaction is to all this, as he was your mum's friend, not the father. You do mention that he doesn't come out much anymore - I wonder if this is because he's found your mum increasingly hard to handle and has maybe asked his dad to step in when she turns up, because he doesn't know how to tell her to go away?

 

[jennifer1967]

It's certainly time someone stepped in before something really bad happens!

I appreciate that the neighbour is unpleasant to start with so he won't be easy to deal with. Perhaps you could offer him a different solution to throwing water and mutual name-calling? If he were to phone the police or social services whenever she turns up, saying 'an old lady with dementia keeps harrassing me and my family. She won't go away', they would have to come and deal with it.

As @Sarasa says, this may result in a temporary hiatus but more likely your mum will forget and do it all again next time she sees the neighbours or wants a cig. The neighbour will need to keep phoning social services each time until they realise your mum needs constant supervision and help. It's the best way to get her 'on the radar' and may hasten the move to a care home - which it would seem she needs now, to keep her safe.

You don't say what the neighbour's son's reaction is to all this, as he was your mum's friend, not the father. You do mention that he doesn't come out much anymore - I wonder if this is because he's found your mum increasingly hard to handle and has maybe asked his dad to step in when she turns up, because he doesn't know how to tell her to go away?

i think sue said that the son had a brain tumour and was having chemo so perhaps hes shielding as because lowered immunity which is why he doesnt come out any more

 

[Weasell]

What worries me is not the problem you are reporting, but potential problems that could be occurring, her vulnerability is so acute.
It sounds to me as if to remain safe she needs to be in a care home, but you are going to bump the mental capacity act ‘old chestnut’.

On the short term I would :
Instal broadband.
Instal a Ring doorbell which will allow you to observe anyone calling or leaving the property.
Instal a YI camera in the hall ( you will need her permission ) it is a second line of defence to observe visitors in the property. ( loads of change out of £50 on Amazon)
I would purchase a tracker, if necessary make a special pocket in her coat to ensure it is with her when she departs.

You tube has videos on the items i have mentioned.

Have you got both of the power of attorneys signed by your mum, it defiantly would be an idea to get going on that one if you haven’t already.

Your love for your mum and your desire for her freedom comes through so clearly, I can feel your sadness in the post.

Your water thrower doesn’t sound like a person who will interact with the police, but as suggested above he might phone social services. I would get hold of the correct contact number and give it to him. If you need to get her into a care home in the future and she will not be self funding the ‘evidence may be useful’.

 

[Lynmax]

My mum used to have issues about cars parked outside her house, she thought it was her private space! She would go out and peer in at the windows, try to open the doors, kick the tyres and pull at the windscreen wipers! We installed Ring cameras ( door bell and security ones) so we were alerted when she went outside, I would then shout at her through the camera to go back in and have a cup of tea!

This tactic worked but I did warn her lovely neighbours that they might hear my voice echoing in the street. Once when there was a problem with cars double parked up the road, I called out to get mum to ignore the cars and go inside but mum was slightly hidden by a tall bush and I did not see that she was chatting to a policeman. He was very amused that Mum did as she was told! I always phoned her once she got inside to try to distract her from going out again by getting her to watch TV or have something to eat.

 

[marionq]

My sister in law is now in a care home partly because she was going to
Neighbours doors in the early hours of the morning. They were all elderly and very patient with her but it was having a bad effect on them. One man let her come in and sleep on his sofa. He was a lovely person but it had become dangerous. She is so safe and happy in her care home that she wouldn’t leave it now. Unfortunately she has developed cancer since going in and so her time may be limited.

Care homes can be a solution

 

[Suesue]

Thank you everyone for your advice... she goes over to see the son because she likes him and likes chatting with him, she tries to give him money too. She only calls the dad names when he is being horrible to her trying to get her off his property which I understand must be frustrating. Mum doesn’t wander and bothers no one else in the street. She’s a sweet lady albeit annoying at times! He last cig is at 9pm then the gate is locked and she stays indoors. I’ve jested with her about a care home and she says she’ll commit suicide if I do that. Dad is being assessed for dementia in April so he’s not much help in trying to keep her away from the said neighbour. I personally don’t think she is bad enough to go into care. I go up twice a day at the moment as I’m not working due to lockdown ... I’m usually there a couple of hours in the morning then the same again early evening. When dad was poorly a year ago and had a hospital stay... they would t allow him out without a care plan set up. We did that for about 3/4 months snd just ended up with a large bill to pay got nothing really as mum wouldn’t let them in as she said she could manage without them!

 

[blackmortimer]

Hi there, just looking for some advice really.
My mum has vascular and alzheimers, diagnosed 2017. She is very into her routines.
The problem is ....before covid she used to have an occasional cig in the street with her neighbours son (who is having chemo for a brain tumour). Unfortunately it was a routine that she enjoyed and probably happened a couple of times a week. Since covid the son rarely comes out, mum misses her routine so pops over the road looking for him. The father unfortunately isnt a nice guy. He tells mum to go away which obviously she doesnt understand. He has now on a few occasions thrown water over her to get rid of her! i'm not happy with this at all. What should I do....any advice very welcome. I have spoken to him and asked him not to throw water over her as its abuse....his reply was to lock her in!!

Throwing water on anyone is an assault at common law technically known as "common assault" Anyone convicted can be bound over to keep the peace so that if it recurs they can be taken back to court and dealt with more severely. If the water causes injury there could be a crime of causing actual bodily harm (ABH in cop speak!). You should definitely report the matter to your local police. At the very least I would hope they would go round and "give words of advice (more cop-speak).

 

[Jessbow]

The very least I would hope they would go round and "give words of advice (more cop-speak).

They might just advise that lady NOt to call the chap names when he asks her, quite a reasonable request given sons condition- to leave his garden.


Unfortunately dementia isnt the trump card. It can be vary wearing when someone has to deal with a neighbour like this. <Maybe he will be less stressed about it when corona restrictions lift a bit