Care home costs

[Evie5831]

I have today been told that my mum can never be left on her own again so am debating whether to try having her home when she is discharged from hospital and see if she settles if the family can run a rota to support her Or whether it’s better for her to settle into a care home Straight away.
So far I can’t work out if she would need to self fund as she owns a small house or whether a charge can be put on her house for care fees or whether she would get some financial support . I can’t find out ball park figures for care home costs either so I can’t begin to work out if I can afford for her to go to residential care And what exactly I do if I can’t.
I am sure other people have faced this dilemma and wondered if anyone has some advice to get me started please.
I also wondered if anyone is self funding in the South East of England and knows basic costs involved in residential care.
Any help gratefully received

 

[Bikerbeth]

In my area (Bedfordshire/Hertfordshire) for early dementia care fees varied from about £800 to £1600. I would say some of the larger chains but not for profit ranged about £1200 if had physical needs as well.
My Mum is self funding but at the moment we are managing to cover costs from renting out her house, her pensions and topping up from her savings but not sure how sustainable that will be long term.
Others on here will have better knowledge about when a charge is put against the house.
I hope that helps a bit

 

[Evie5831]

In my area (Bedfordshire/Hertfordshire) for early dementia care fees varied from about £800 to £1600. I would say some of the larger chains but not for profit ranged about £1200 if had physical needs as well.
My Mum is self funding but at the moment we are managing to cover costs from renting out her house, her pensions and topping up from her savings but not sure how sustainable that will be long term.
Others on here will have better knowledge about when a charge is put against the house.
I hope that helps a bit

Thanks very much

 

[Duggies-girl]

@Evie5831 Yes this happened to my dad after a 3 week hospital stay from hell. I won't go into that but it was a terrible time. I can't help you with care home fees or anything financial but I can tell you what we did. Actually that is not true because I did look at at a coupe of care homes and they were both a little under £1000 a week which I have since considered a bargain. We are in the south east too.

Having already looked after my dad for almost 2 years with very little help from family I thought a care home would be the best thing for my dad. He had previously lived alone in his own home with me visiting twice a day every day for breakfast, dinner, medication etc. I also took him shopping and for lunch 2 or 3 time a week and did his washing, cleaning and sorted out everything else. My job went very early on during this period. Dad was financially quite well off and had his own home so care home fees would not have ben a problem.

Anyway this was vetoed by my brother and his wife who both suggested that we could look after dad between us on a sort of rota fashion. I was guilt tripped into this because dad had terminal cancer as well, so I accepted this for his sake which meant that I was plunged into caring 24/7 for an 89 year old very fragile dad who could not find his bathroom or kitchen and was not able to get himself there without help even if he could find his way. I spent the next year permanently frightened that he would fall over and break something and end up back in hospital. Help was rare because my brother and his wife both work and also attend a lot of functions and need time to themselves. I on the other hand was always available.

I can honestly say that I don't regret it because dad had a good and happy year at home (he died a year ago) and I feel like I did a good job but if he were still here now I think I would have been at my wits end with the sheer stress and worry of it all. Also I know that if dad had gone straight to a care home from hospital he would never have known the difference, I could have fobbed him off with the 'just for recuperation' story and he would have been fine and I would have had some life of my own. It would have been so simple.

My dad was particularly easy to look after as he was good humoured and very compliant which makes a great deal of difference but it was still very hard and I don't think that I have recovered yet from the stress. I would just say think very carefully and really importantly, can you count on the other family members to help you.

 

[MaNaAk]

I have today been told that my mum can never be left on her own again so am debating whether to try having her home when she is discharged from hospital and see if she settles if the family can run a rota to support her Or whether it’s better for her to settle into a care home Straight away.
So far I can’t work out if she would need to self fund as she owns a small house or whether a charge can be put on her house for care fees or whether she would get some financial support . I can’t find out ball park figures for care home costs either so I can’t begin to work out if I can afford for her to go to residential care And what exactly I do if I can’t.
I am sure other people have faced this dilemma and wondered if anyone has some advice to get me started please.
I also wondered if anyone is self funding in the South East of England and knows basic costs involved in residential care.
Any help gratefully received

If she has over £23500 she would be self-funding. My youngest brother did a print out of care homes but there was also a book at our local surgery and your local authority will be able to advise you (they can advise you on their own care homes if she is not self-funding).

You may need to consider whether your mum will need nursing care or not. I couldn't tell the difference between a nursing home and a care home but ended up in the latter at £650 a week. He would have paid £750 for a room with a sea view which was bigger.

You can also consider live-in care but this can be more expensive than some care homes.

Good luck

MaNaAk

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @Evie5831 , in my bit of the South-East (South West London) care home fees seem to average out at about £1,500 a week. I'm sure there are some places that are a little cheaper.
I agree with @Duggies-girl and think moving straight to a care home is the best way forward. If the hospital thinks she should not be left alone that would mean family moving in full-time. Even if there are a lot of you, and you work a rota that is a big commitment. Also would you need to adapt her house to make things easier, downstairs loo and wet room for instance?
I don't know if this fact sheet will help
Paying for care and support in England | Alzheimer's Society
Finally, a lot of people seem to think moving a loved one into care mean that they have somehow 'failed'. In a lot of cases a care home is by far the best option. They are geared up to meet the needs of people with dementia, there is always a team around to help, and in normal times the care home can become like a second home to family that visit.

 

[Weasell]

Paying for care home fees in England

Paying for a care home can be expensive, but you may be eligible to financial help from your local authority. In some cases, you might be able to get financial support from the NHS.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

Im not sure if my link is the same as @Sarasa has already given you ( I am not very good at links)

Also carehome.co.uk
is a useful site.

 

[MaNaAk]

I remember dad appearing to seem better the first time I visited in a care home. Also cared for dad at home until I could do no more you do run the risk of making yourself ill through the stress of caring so a care home is the best option.

MaNaAk

 

[MaNaAk]

I think dad was literally given a new lease of life.

MaNaAk

 

[Evie5831]

If she has over £23500 she would be self-funding. My youngest brother did a print out of care homes but there was also a book at our local surgery and your local authority will be able to advise you (they can advise you on their own care homes if she is not self-funding).

You may need to consider whether your mum will need nursing care or not. I couldn't tell the difference between a nursing home and a care home but ended up in the latter at £650 a week. He would have paid £750 for a room with a sea view which was bigger.

You can also consider live-in care but this can be more expensive than some care homes.

Good luck

MaNaAk

Thank you for this , we don’t yet know if she will need nursing care but at this point she may well do. She has a fractured hip , noe repairedand a healing compression spinal fracture. If the hospital stand her up she falls over within a couple of minutes so is not healing atm.
I am very concerned about trying to sell her house quickly in the current climate and as this is her only asset we don’t have funds to pay until the house is sold. Care is a mine field isn’t it!

 

[lollyc]

We're Bucks/Herts/Beds borders and paid £1300 for respite in a residential (i.e not dementia specific) care home last January. I suspect fees have increased with Covid, and would expect to pay £1200 - £1500 per week for a permanent place.
Of course you won't be able to visit any prospective homes at the moment. I think the thing to remember here is what is practical for your mum, rather than the one you would most like to stay in - not always the same thing! Personally I like the "country vicarage" type, but my Mum would be hoplessly lost with all the nooks and crannies, couldn't manage stairs and would be totally dependent on staff to get her anywhere. She can't walk far, so acres of grounds would mainly be viewed through a window. Some homes have a cinema room, or choice of dining rooms - things your mum may have no use for. Sometimes the best place will be the plainest, most utlitarian looking building! I suppose what I'm sayig is don't judge a book by the cover, and look with your head, not your heart.

 

[MaNaAk]

Thank you for this , we don’t yet know if she will need nursing care but at this point she may well do. She has a fractured hip , noe repairedand a healing compression spinal fracture. If the hospital stand her up she falls over within a couple of minutes so is not healing atm.
I am very concerned about trying to sell her house quickly in the current climate and as this is her only asset we don’t have funds to pay until the house is sold. Care is a mine field isn’t it!

In that case you need to ask her doctor and possibly your local authority about what type of care can be offered with luck she could be entitled to CHC funded care although this is hard to get. You really need to speak to them as it sounds like she needs nursing care and also would you consider renting her home out.

MaNaAk

 

[Weasell]

Thank you for this , we don’t yet know if she will need nursing care but at this point she may well do. She has a fractured hip , noe repairedand a healing compression spinal fracture. If the hospital stand her up she falls over within a couple of minutes so is not healing atm.
I am very concerned about trying to sell her house quickly in the current climate and as this is her only asset we don’t have funds to pay until the house is sold. Care is a mine field isn’t it!

My friends Mum was in a care home, and they waited ages for the money to arrive from the sale of the property.
I would discuss this with social services.
I think they will be able to put your mind at rest.

 

[lemonbalm]

As @Weasell mentioned earlier, the website link below is really useful for choosing a care home. You can search using area and various other criteria. It also has useful information and links at the bottom of the main page regarding how to choose a care home, funding and so on.

For reference, my mum's home fees are just over £1000 per week for dementia care (a small privately run place, not at all grand but oozing kindness, which is far more important)

Care Homes & Nursing Homes UK – Care Home Reviews & Nursing Home Reviews

Guide to over 17,500 care homes, nursing homes and residential homes providing care in the UK, also the leading UK review site for care homes and nursing homes.

www.carehome.co.uk

 

[Louise7]

@Evie5831 Sorry to hear about your Mum, and it does appear from what you have said that she needs much more care than she did prior to her hospital admission. Things are more difficult in the current climate but when we were in a similar situation (pre-covid) a meeting was held prior to discharge between the medical team, family and a hospital social worker to decide whether Mum could return home or no - see this link:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/socia...tay/arranging-care-before-you-leave-hospital/

If it is felt that your Mum may recover following suitable physiotherapy etc she may be discharged for 'reablement' in a care/nursing home. If this is the case then the care home fees will be paid for a maximum of 6 weeks:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/socia...ter-illness-or-hospital-discharge-reablement/

A financial assessment will then be conducted on your Mum's finances and based her on ability to pay for care - it is not the responsibility of family to find the funds themselves. If your Mum does not have savings in excess of £23,250 then the local authority will need to fund the care. If your Mum is deemed to require nursing care then she may qualify for Funded Nursing Care which is approx £183 or so and will be paid directly to a care home towards the fees. As your mum has a property this will be disregarded as an asset for the first 12 weeks. This period is to allow the property to be sold but obviously that is a very optimistic time frame, even pre-covid. In my Mum's case because her house could not be sold within the 12 week disregard period we applied to the local authority for a deferred payment, which means that a charge is placed on the property by them and they pay the care home fees until such time the property is sold. This usually requires an arrangement fee and also interest is charged by the local authority too (local authorities can make their own policies regarding the deferred payment agreement specifics). The money paid by the local authority to the care home was repaid to the local authority when Mum's house was eventually sold.

What I suggest that you do in the first instance, if you haven't already done so, is ask to speak to one of the hospital social workers and explain the situation to them and they should arrange for the necessary meeting to take place. Be aware that if you mention that family may be able to step in and provide care then they are likely to just leave you to it! I know that currently hospitals will want to discharge someone as soon as they can to free up the beds but there is still a requirement to ensure that care needs can be met on discharge.

 

[Evie5831]

Hi @Evie5831 , in my bit of the South-East (South West London) care home fees seem to average out at about £1,500 a week. I'm sure there are some places that are a little cheaper.
I agree with @Duggies-girl and think moving straight to a care home is the best way forward. If the hospital thinks she should not be left alone that would mean family moving in full-time. Even if there are a lot of you, and you work a rota that is a big commitment. Also would you need to adapt her house to make things easier, downstairs loo and wet room for instance?
I don't know if this fact sheet will help
Paying for care and support in England | Alzheimer's Society
Finally, a lot of people seem to think moving a loved one into care mean that they have somehow 'failed'. In a lot of cases a care home is by far the best option. They are geared up to meet the needs of people with dementia, there is always a team around to help, and in normal times the care home can become like a second home to family that visit.

Thanks for your support, there is a stigma attached isn’t there. I ultimately had to allow my Dad to go into care when he reached the final stage But his funding wasn’t complicated as my mum still lived in the house

 

[Evie5831]

@Evie5831 Sorry to hear about your Mum, and it does appear from what you have said that she needs much more care than she did prior to her hospital admission. Things are more difficult in the current climate but when we were in a similar situation (pre-covid) a meeting was held prior to discharge between the medical team, family and a hospital social worker to decide whether Mum could return home or no - see this link:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/socia...tay/arranging-care-before-you-leave-hospital/

If it is felt that your Mum may recover following suitable physiotherapy etc she may be discharged for 'reablement' in a care/nursing home. If this is the case then the care home fees will be paid for a maximum of 6 weeks:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/socia...ter-illness-or-hospital-discharge-reablement/

A financial assessment will then be conducted on your Mum's finances and based her on ability to pay for care - it is not the responsibility of family to find the funds themselves. If your Mum does not have savings in excess of £23,250 then the local authority will need to fund the care. If your Mum is deemed to require nursing care then she may qualify for Funded Nursing Care which is approx £183 or so and will be paid directly to a care home towards the fees. As your mum has a property this will be disregarded as an asset for the first 12 weeks. This period is to allow the property to be sold but obviously that is a very optimistic time frame, even pre-covid. In my Mum's case because her house could not be sold within the 12 week disregard period we applied to the local authority for a deferred payment, which means that a charge is placed on the property by them and they pay the care home fees until such time the property is sold. This usually requires an arrangement fee and also interest is charged by the local authority too (local authorities can make their own policies regarding the deferred payment agreement specifics). The money paid by the local authority to the care home was repaid to the local authority when Mum's house was eventually sold.

What I suggest that you do in the first instance, if you haven't already done so, is ask to speak to one of the hospital social workers and explain the situation to them and they should arrange for the necessary meeting to take place. Be aware that if you mention that family may be able to step in and provide care then they are likely to just leave you to it! I know that currently hospitals will want to discharge someone as soon as they can to free up the beds but there is still a requirement to ensure that care needs can be met on discharge.

Thanks for this , I will get straight on to it

 

[jennifer1967]

the difference between care and nursing home is usually nurses are in a nursing home. they can carry out medical stuff in house under direction of gp but care home cant and have to have district nurse to do it. there is certain criteria that a resident needs to be able to do. nursing homes have hoists and more specialist equipment for the bed bound where as care homes, the residents need to be able to weight bear. nursing is a higher level of care

 

[Susan11]

the difference between care and nursing home is usually nurses are in a nursing home. they can carry out medical stuff in house under direction of gp but care home cant and have to have district nurse to do it. there is certain criteria that a resident needs to be able to do. nursing homes have hoists and more specialist equipment for the bed bound where as care homes, the residents need to be able to weight bear. nursing is a higher level of care

Mum's Care Home used hoists when necessary and certainly some residents couldn't bear weight. I think if the conditions developed when the residents are in the CH they don't move them to a Nursing home unless absolutely necessary. Certainly Mum's CH promised they keep her there as long as they could.

 

[jennifer1967]

maybe it was the criteria of the particular home i worked in. we had very few that stayed until deceased. maybe it was staffing levels