Query house sale proceeds with POA

[Grancan1313]

Hi all my step mother is selling my father and hers house. My father has lost capacity due to end stage advanced Dementia. She for some reason will not share any details with me about sale and particularly proceeds left over. We are both joint and several Poa so she can act on her own and i believe can ask someone out of her family to act as second person on sale,
My question is once the sale is complete and the proceeds get split will my father already need an account set up or could everything be transferred to her and she potentially separate after. He will have to pay care fees and I am concerned she doesn’t realise this money is not hers.
do I have any authority to ask for details to be provided of this account ? Thank you

 

[Bod]

I would ensure the solicitor handling the sale is aware of the exact situation regarding the POA.

Bod

 

[Grancan1313]

Hi bod. I have tried to contact their solicitor but as yet not been too forthcoming with info. What would you be letting them know? Thanks

 

[anxious annie]

My sister and I are currently selling my mum ( has dementia, we have poa) house , and my dads share ( as executors of his will). We have to give the solicitor the 2 bank account details. They owned the house as tenants in common. The solicitor will have to have the deeds of the house which will state who it belongs to, and they will pay out accordingly. The solicitor shouldn't be paying it all into one account I think. I'd explain to the solicitor that you are concerned your step mum may not be aware your dad's share will be needed to fund care home fees. Is your step mum buying another property ?

 

[Grancan1313]

My sister and I are currently selling my mum ( has dementia, we have poa) house , and my dads share ( as executors of his will). We have to give the solicitor the 2 bank account details. They owned the house as tenants in common. The solicitor will have to have the deeds of the house which will state who it belongs to, and they will pay out accordingly. The solicitor shouldn't be paying it all into one account I think. I'd explain to the solicitor that you are concerned your step mum may not be aware your dad's share will be needed to fund care home fees. Is your step mum buying another property ?

Hi that’s great that’s what I’m worried about I need to make sure he has own account. She is downsizing to smaller house which should be on same terms then about 100k surplus to each of them. Ideally I want details of this account but her family unwilling to share info.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Grancan1313
I'm concerned that you are also an Attorney for your father yet don't seem to be being actively involved in the sale of this shared property

when my dad's house was sold both his Attorneys had to show LPA to the Estate Agent and solicitor and sign the relevant documents ... we too were acting jointly and severally, but for such a major action it was clear we both had to be involved, though not necessarily literally at the same moment

as your step-mother is a party to the sale, she cannot act as Attorney, there being a conflict of interests, so surely you need to be acting on your father's behalf (as there's another Attorney, there's no need for a Trustee, I believe, and no need for any of her family to be involved) ... please check this with the Estate Agent and solicitor dealing; as Attorney you have every right to all the information they are sharing with your step-mother, she has no right to instruct them not to deal with you whether or not she herself wants to share info

 

[anxious annie]

I know that if you are joint and several, it means you can make decisions together, or on your own, so your step mother doesn't need you to agree to decisions, but I would have thought you should at least be informed of what is happening/ funds available etc The solicitor must have seen the Poa with your details on , so not sure why he/she is not forthcoming with details. Is your dad already in care? This would be deprivation of assets if step mum takes all the money. Did your dad make a will? If he's not left everything just to her it definitely needs sorting. Good luck with this, see what the solicitor says.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Grancan1313
you are clearly concerned about how the other Attorney is acting - contact the OPG directly to check all this with them - a phone call may have you waiting for some time but it's worth the wait to actually speak to someone in real time
phone no at bottom of this page

Office of the Public Guardian

Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) helps people in England and Wales to stay in control of decisions about their health and finance and make important decisions for others who cannot decide for themselves. OPG is an executive agency, sponsored by the Ministry of Justice .

www.gov.uk

an email reply may take several working days and if you have further questions then it's more time - give them a call

 

[Bunty2410]

Correct me if I’ve got this wrong but it Is my understanding that if your father where to enter residential care he would not be required to sell his home to fund this as his wife still lives there, but should your father pass away any fees owed would trigger the home being sold.
Is his wife trying to sell the house to secure funds for her future requirements in the belief that funds maybe significantly depleted should a fee deficit accrue?

 

[Sarasa]

We sold my mother’s flat using POA last year. My brother and I have POA for mum jointly and severally but he was seriously ill and couldn’t help with doing any of the admin or practical things needed when selling a property. The solicitor was happy for me to do all the work but insisted on an email from him saying he was happy for me to act in this way. Can you contact the solicitor and raise your concerns as it seems at the very least you should been informed of what is happening.

 

[Louise7]

Correct me if I’ve got this wrong but it Is my understanding that if your father where to enter residential care he would not be required to sell his home to fund this as his wife still lives there, but should your father pass away any fees owed would trigger the home being sold.

Hello @Bunty2410 The first part of your response is correct - if one half of a couple goes into residential care as long as their partner remained living in their home the property would be disregarded for as long as the partner remained living there. The second part of your answer is incorrect though. If the partner in care passed away first the house would not have to be sold to pay for the care fees as it would have been disregarded as an asset because the partner had remained living there.

 

[Bunty2410]

Hello @Bunty2410 The first part of your response is correct - if one half of a couple goes into residential care as long as their partner remained living in their home the property would be disregarded for as long as the partner remained living there. The second part of your answer is incorrect though. If the partner in care passed away first the house would not have to be sold to pay for the care fees as it would have been disregarded as an asset because the partner had remained living there.

Thank you for clarifying ?

 

[Grancan1313]

hi @Grancan1313
I'm concerned that you are also an Attorney for your father yet don't seem to be being actively involved in the sale of this shared property

when my dad's house was sold both his Attorneys had to show LPA to the Estate Agent and solicitor and sign the relevant documents ... we too were acting jointly and severally, but for such a major action it was clear we both had to be involved, though not necessarily literally at the same moment

as your step-mother is a party to the sale, she cannot act as Attorney, there being a conflict of interests, so surely you need to be acting on your father's behalf (as there's another Attorney, there's no need for a Trustee, I believe, and no need for any of her family to be involved) ... please check this with the Estate Agent and solicitor dealing; as Attorney you have every right to all the information they are sharing with your step-mother, she has no right to instruct them not to deal with you whether or not she herself wants to share info

Thanks for this just seen reply. I contacted the solicitor and apparently sale is in early stages but no one will give me any information at all and they don’t want me privy to any information. I wasn’t sure how much her solicitor would divulge? Wasn’t sure it was an obligation or not ?

 

[Grancan1313]

I know that if you are joint and several, it means you can make decisions together, or on your own, so your step mother doesn't need you to agree to decisions, but I would have thought you should at least be informed of what is happening/ funds available etc The solicitor must have seen the Poa with your details on , so not sure why he/she is not forthcoming with details. Is your dad already in care? This would be deprivation of assets if step mum takes all the money. Did your dad make a will? If he's not left everything just to her it definitely needs sorting. Good luck with this, see what the solicitor says.

Hi I don’t think the solicitor has got as far as POA YET but I have emailed her and told her I am second Poa . He is in care and yes his funds will have to pay for that but I think her not giving me any information leads that position to be exploited. And yes he made a will hence I think why she is selling before he dies as she has realised she can free the funds up before he dies as opposed to his share going in to trust for children when he passss ? very clever of her I think .... but don’t know what to do

 

[Grancan1313]

hi @Grancan1313
I'm concerned that you are also an Attorney for your father yet don't seem to be being actively involved in the sale of this shared property

when my dad's house was sold both his Attorneys had to show LPA to the Estate Agent and solicitor and sign the relevant documents ... we too were acting jointly and severally, but for such a major action it was clear we both had to be involved, though not necessarily literally at the same moment

as your step-mother is a party to the sale, she cannot act as Attorney, there being a conflict of interests, so surely you need to be acting on your father's behalf (as there's another Attorney, there's no need for a Trustee, I believe, and no need for any of her family to be involved) ... please check this with the Estate Agent and solicitor dealing; as Attorney you have every right to all the information they are sharing with your step-mother, she has no right to instruct them not to deal with you whether or not she herself wants to share info

Yes I have had independent legal advice from a sol but they told me it should be Poa to sign but in reality she can do it herself with another person ie a family member. Seems there are loop holes ?!

 

[Grancan1313]

Correct me if I’ve got this wrong but it Is my understanding that if your father where to enter residential care he would not be required to sell his home to fund this as his wife still lives there, but should your father pass away any fees owed would trigger the home being sold.
Is his wife trying to sell the house to secure funds for her future requirements in the belief that funds maybe significantly depleted should a fee deficit accrue?

Hi she is selling to free up funds for herself and he will also receive approx 100k. He is currently social care funded so he will be self funding until this runs short

 

[Grancan1313]

Spik

hi @Grancan1313
you are clearly concerned about how the other Attorney is acting - contact the OPG directly to check all this with them - a phone call may have you waiting for some time but it's worth the wait to actually speak to someone in real time
phone no at bottom of this page

Office of the Public Guardian

Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) helps people in England and Wales to stay in control of decisions about their health and finance and make important decisions for others who cannot decide for themselves. OPG is an executive agency, sponsored by the Ministry of Justice .

www.gov.uk

an email reply may take several working days and if you have further questions then it's more time - give them a call

Hi spoke to OPG they say I can’t provide enough tangible info to investigate because I can’t provide valuations etc...

 

[Grancan1313]

We sold my mother’s flat using POA last year. My brother and I have POA for mum jointly and severally but he was seriously ill and couldn’t help with doing any of the admin or practical things needed when selling a property. The solicitor was happy for me to do all the work but insisted on an email from him saying he was happy for me to act in this way. Can you contact the solicitor and raise your concerns as it seems at the very least you should been informed of what is happening.

Hi thanks so much this is very useful I have spoke to solicitors but don’t seem to be getting too far but I will definitely try again thank you

 

[Grancan1313]

Hello @Bunty2410 The first part of your response is correct - if one half of a couple goes into residential care as long as their partner remained living in their home the property would be disregarded for as long as the partner remained living there. The second part of your answer is incorrect though. If the partner in care passed away first the house would not have to be sold to pay for the care fees as it would have been disregarded as an asset because the partner had remained living there.

Hi his house can’t be used for assets as you say as she is still there.

 

[Louise7]

@Grancan1313 I sold my Mum's house a couple of months ago. Like you and your step mother I hold joint & several financial power of attorney, with my sister. I produced the original power of attorney letter to the solicitor and they advised that they were happy to liaise with me regarding the sale and did not require my sister to be involved, although I was keeping her informed at every stage. I was able to go through the entire sale process, including signing/exchange of contracts, without my sister being involved.

If you are concerned that your father's share of the sale may not be paid into a separate account, as financial attorney there is nothing to stop you from informing your stepmother that you will be opening up an account in your father's name for receipt of his share of the funds, opening the account and then providing the account details to the solicitor. This will give your step mother the opportunity to let you know whether a separate account has already been set up or not for your father. As joint attorney you are as responsible for ensuring that your father's finances are managed in his best interest as his wife is so you should be proactive about the situation.