Really need advice to protect Dad from financial disaster

[Lucinda33]

Hi, I am new to the forum and would really welcome any advice on how to protect my Father and my family.

We first noticed a change in Dad's behaviour/personality in 2015, he became very grumpy, stopped seeing his friends and became generally disinterested in life, he was 75 at the time. In 2016 he started to make really silly financial decisions resulting in him spending vast amounts of money unnecessarily, he lost all empathy and started to say nasty and hurtful things to me, my husband and more upsettingly our daughter who was only 9 at the time. Up until then we had always been a very close loving family, Dad was my best friend and he absolutely adored his grandaughter. He finally went to the doctors in August 2016 and they put him on anti depressants (Sertraline and then Mirtazapine) he had a adverse reaction to these becoming far more aggressive and angry with a gated jawline. The doctors changed the anti-depressant and they did seem to have a bit of a calming effect on his anger, but he still goes from being angry/frustrated to not with it to almost normal and this pattern has continued to this day. The doctors then referred him to a geriatric psychiatrist in 2017 as he wasn't getting better. The psychiatrist suspected Lewy Body Dementia but she couldn't get Dad to have the DAT scan so the diagnoses has remained as depression. He managed to convince her that he was much better and back to his normal self in 2019 so he doesn't have to see her anymore.

Dad retired 23 years ago and I have always run our joint business and dealt with everything for him so he could enjoy his retirement. He put in place a power of attorney so I could do everything 24 years ago. He has now decided that he wants to revoke the POA as he doesn't want me to be able to "control his life" and he wants to be put on the deeds to our house as he believes that I will die before him and he doesn't want our daughter/his granddaughter to inherit, he wants to. He is also saying that he needs to update his will and we won't know who he has left things to until he has gone (we are his only family).

Having had no involvement in our business for 23 years he now wants to control everything and has told me I cannot make any decisions without him. He is making phone calls to companies I have used for years saying that they must not deal with me, only him. I have had several calls advising me that he has rang them in a angry state criticising them.

I have thought about going back to the doctors to try and get a proper diagnoses but again he would have to agree to see them, and he won't as he doesn't think there is anything wrong with him.

I need to protect him but I just don't know how, any advice greatly welcomed.

 

[MaNaAk]

Dear @Lucinda33,

I think you should go to the doctors on your own and tell them what's been happening and then ask the doctor to see your dad on another medical condition. I know it is difficult with the pandemic but ideally it would be good if the doctor could come to your dad's house. If not try to get him to the doctors with a love lie.

Good luck

MaNaAk

 

[Lucinda33]

Dear MaNaAK

Thank you so much.

I have spoken to the doctors on many occasions over the past 4 years advising them of Dad's behaviour change/personality change/cognitive decline and the various falls and injuries he has had but the diagnoses has still not come.

They have advised me that they don't have any tablets to help and I should just get myself away as much as possible. I think they thought that by referring Dad to the geriatric psychiatrist that we would get the correct diagnosis but Dad did not allow me to go to any of the meetings, so she did not have all the facts.

I guess I will try again.

Many thanks.

 

[Bunpoots]

Welcome to Dementia Talking Point @Lucinda33 I agree with @MaNaAk that you need to let your dad’s GP know what’s been happening and see if he can be called in for a “well man check-up” and hopefully the GP can do other tests while he is there to see if he thinks you’re dealing with dementia. I think it sounds like you are.

I think you have to let everyone involved that your dad is having problems and ask them to refer all instructions from your dad to you (without letting him know they’re doing this) for confirmation. Hopefully this will limit the damage he can do.

In the meantime if your dad gets insistent on doing unwise things don’t say “ no”to him but say “yes but...” followed by a reason it can’t be done until later (later never comes). The success of this tactic depends on how good or bad his memory is.

I found this thread very helpful while I was caring for my dad:

Compassionate Communication with the Memory Impaired

The following piece was posted a while ago on DSF and made a big impression on me. It is something I have referred to time after time and tried hard to follow. We have many new members who may not have seen it before. Yesterday I posted it on another Thread but thought it might be helpful if...

forum.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[canary]

I think they thought that by referring Dad to the geriatric psychiatrist that we would get the correct diagnosis but Dad did not allow me to go to any of the meetings, so she did not have all the facts.

I always write a letter to any doctor that OH is seeing and make sure that the doctor sees it before they see OH - either by handing it in, or posting it in. That way i can explain what i am seeing , because I know that OH has no idea about most of his problems and will deny them.

 

[Rosettastone57]

Hi @Lucinda33 my mother in law often used to say that she would revoked the POA to my husband and I , or change her will . We never got into an argument over this, we simply ignored it. My husband used to say that when she had done this, to let him know . Of course, she never did this as she simply didn't have the capacity to undertake all the steps to do any of it .I used to always let anyone that my mother in law had any dealings with , whether, doctors, care staff, volunteers, that she was ill and to always deal with me . I used to put this in writing as far as possible and if possible to be at any appointments. I had no qualms about this , as far as I was concerned , she needed help and if that made her care needs more obvious then so be it. As far as my mother in law was concerned , she was doing just fine, the reality was she could do little for herself.

 

[Lucinda33]

Thank you to everyone, i am already feeling stronger and able to deal with each day.

How is it best to deal with the worry of Dad making silly decisions on everyday activities that could cause him harm. He constantly leaves things in the garden that he could trip over, and we have had a few falls due to this already. There are many more situations that we have had that simply by luck haven't caused problems.

Obviously I cannot stop him from doing exactly as he wishes, but I just want to keep him safe and I feel that I am letting him down.

Thats the worst feeling really, that I am not doing enough to protect him.

 

[canary]

Thats the worst feeling really, that I am not doing enough to protect him.

I think we all feel like that, however much we are doing. The problem is that dementia is not "fixable", so its never going to be enough.

You can only work out what you can do, and do that.

 

[Lucinda33]

Thank you. I thought I was getting better at not trying to stop any disasters, but I am still trying to explain to Dad the pitfalls of his actions, very stupidly, as it simply makes him more angry.

It is just so hard when he seems to be doing most things simply to provoke a reaction from me so he can vent more anger at me. His main plan at the moment seems to be to prove that I haven't done a good job of running our business for the past 23 years. He has completely dismissed the fact that he retired 23 years ago and has been living life to the full (until he became ill) and I really hoped that he would continue doing so as he had worked so hard. We are a million miles from how are relationship used to be and I know I will never have a normal conversation with him ever again, I know I said goodbye to him a good four years ago, but when I sit opposite him at the table and he still looks like Dad it is impossible to distance myself and not get upset by the awful things he says. He would be absolutely mortified at the things he has said and done if it was still him.

 

[Lucinda33]

We are experiencing a big increase in Dad's anger levels which normally only last for a couple of days at a time, but this time it has carried on for about a fortnight now.

I am wondering if he has stopped taking the anti depressant and whether this would have an effect on his anger levels. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this ?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[canary]

Please be careful, if his rage is increasing it could spill over into actual violence.
Please dont ague with him, or try and explain - its a red rag to an already angry bull.
I think it would be a good idea to contact his GP or Community Psychiatric Team (if you can) and tell them about the increasing levels of rage and aggression.

 

[Lucinda33]

Thank you Canary.
I must admit, it is quite scary. We had a similar level of anger at the very start when there was a reaction to the anti depressant that he had been put on.

I will contact the GP to let them know.

Thank you.

 

[Lucinda33]

Its been a while since I have posted. I really thought I was getting a grip on my emotions but I seem to have tumbled right down again.

I just feel so helpless and I know I should be doing more but I have no idea how to do it. We are not going to get a diagnoses from the GP no matter how many times I ring or write in. I feel I am just waiting for a disaster to happen before the correct diagnoses will happen, but the worry of what the disaster will be and the consequences of that are tearing me apart and I don't know that the correct diagnoses will even change anything.

Dad is carrying on as though he is still working (he retired 23 years ago) demanding meetings, ringing companies I have used for years and telling them they are no good, its all about control and I fully understand that is what the disease does but at what stage can I intervene and stop this mayhem.

I feel so terrible telling people that he is having cognitive problems it just feels so awful, and the fear of them telling him what I have said is a nightmare as on a really good day (and for people that don't know him well) he can present as perfectly normal.

We are five years in to this awful situation and I have no idea how many more years this stage will continue.

I just have this awful feeling that one day he will ask me why I didn't stop him from making stupid decisions especially as he asked me to look out for him at the very start when he knew something was wrong.

 

[Linsac]

Have you tried contacting the Adult mental health team in your area directly? They should be able to help and at least get someone round to do an up to date assessment on him. My mum was discharge from a MH ward without a diagnosis so I rang them and they were most helpful, setting up an assessment for her within the week. You are most likely wasting your time with the GP as there is little they can do.

So sorry you are having to go through this but you really can't let things carry on as they are.

 

[Claireyeddy]

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

The only thing I would say also, is perhaps contact the solicitor who holds the LPAs and notify them that there are now capacity issues, as they are obliged to conduct a capacity assessment when initially setting up (when your Dad first signed it) or indeed revoking an LPA. If your father appears unstable and incapable of justifying exactly why he wants to revoke the LPA, the solicitor may refuse to accept his request in any event. However given the complications and lack of interpretation we've had from my Nan's solicitor, I think this obligation is something you will need to remind them of beforehand! What status are the LPA's if you don't mind me asking? If they are already in place, and you feel he has lost capacity to make decisions for himself, you can stand by any decision that you need to make in his best interests, i.e. having him sectioned, taking over his finances etc. and like I said the solicitor is unlikely to revoke an LPA if he is in that state.

I also agree with the above, that the GP should be supporting this as an issue. It is difficult when the 'patient' doesn't agree to be assessed though. I think looking into what you can and can't do with the LPAs could be key for you, and just having the confidence to act on them!

 

[jugglingmum]

Dad is carrying on as though he is still working (he retired 23 years ago) demanding meetings, ringing companies I have used for years and telling them they are no good, its all about control and I fully understand that is what the disease does but at what stage can I intervene and stop this mayhem.

I feel so terrible telling people that he is having cognitive problems it just feels so awful, and the fear of them telling him what I have said is a nightmare as on a really good day (and for people that don't know him well) he can present as perfectly normal.

I presume your business is a limited co. Is your dad still a director? As this gives him legal authority to act on behalf of the co. If he is declared to have lost capacity he can be removed but fluctuating capacity makes things hard. LBD seems a most difficult dementia to deal with.

If he isn't a director you could contact all the relevant suppliers/customers and let them know this, if he is perhaps do the same to say whilst notionally a director please only deal with yourself. These things do happen from time to time in business so a quiet phonecall with each one might be the way to go, they are likely to be sympathetic.

 

[canary]

Dad is carrying on as though he is still working (he retired 23 years ago) demanding meetings, ringing companies I have used for years and telling them they are no good, its all about control and I fully understand that is what the disease does but at what stage can I intervene and stop this mayhem.

Many, many people with dementia think that they are still working (or even going to school) decades after they have retired because they have gone back in time and have lost the intervening years. Its no good trying to persuade them that they are no longer working, because in their mind they are and they dont believe you.

How is your dad accessing your business? Does he live with you and you are working from home? Does he remember the phone numbers of collogues and companies, or is he looking them up?

Make it much harder for him to access things. Use a mobile phone and computor with a password. Tell people to block the original phonenumber and only use your mobile one. Lock away diaries, accounts and contact numbers - or have them on the computor (password protected). If youve got an office, lock it.
If he complains, use love lies - its a new government guideline, data protection is much more stringent now, etc etc, yes, its a pain, but theres nothing you can do about it, youll have to check with xyz. I know hes your dad, but that doesnt mean that you have to do everything that he wants. Stick to your guns and eventually he will stop trying.

 

[Lucinda33]

Many, many people with dementia think that they are still working (or even going to school) decades after they have retired because they have gone back in time and have lost the intervening years. Its no good trying to persuade them that they are no longer working, because in their mind they are and they dont believe you.

How is your dad accessing your business? Does he live with you and you are working from home? Does he remember the phone numbers of collogues and companies, or is he looking them up?

Make it much harder for him to access things. Use a mobile phone and computor with a password. Tell people to block the original phonenumber and only use your mobile one. Lock away diaries, accounts and contact numbers - or have them on the computor (password protected). If youve got an office, lock it.
If he complains, use love lies - its a new government guideline, data protection is much more stringent now, etc etc, yes, its a pain, but theres nothing you can do about it, youll have to check with xyz. I know hes your dad, but that doesnt mean that you have to do everything that he wants. Stick to your guns and eventually he will stop trying.

Thank you all for the brilliant advice.
Rather stupidly I have been giving him the details he has asked for concerning the business when he started demanding it, I really should of used my brain then and not given the contacts/phone numbers etc so perhaps I would be in a much better position now. Its just so hard to say no to his demands when he starts to get angry I just crumble and do as he says.

The company is limited and he is still a director so does have the right to demand information etc, the power of attorney has been in place for many years so I could register that he has lost capacity and get an assessment to use it but can you imagine the anger it would cause when I do and stop him from doing what he wants, I guess I cannot face that but it cannot go on so I need to get the strength from somewhere and get on with it.

 

[canary]

the power of attorney has been in place for many years so I could register that he has lost capacity and get an assessment to use it

You dont have to get a capacity assessment in order to use it. This question came up recently in another thread. Make sure you read it right through to the end. There was a lot of confusion about the POA, but I think the resolution and the four tests of capacity is pertinent to your situation.

Desperate for advice on my family's situation!

Hello there! I'm really relieved to find this forum :) I've been looking through some of the expert Q&As but havent found anything to help with our particular situation as of yet. It regards my grandmother, who is rapidly declining in her mental capacity. She lives alone, about 100 yards from...

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So long as it has been registered with the OPG, you can start using it as soon as you consider it necessary

 

[Bod]

Should he become violent, do not hesitate to call 999 for the police.
Be sure to keep any Incident Numbers, this will be creating an offical record of his actions.
You say you have LPA for him, this is the new LPA, and not the old Enduring power of attorney. What ever you have has it been registered with the Court of Proctection/ Office of the public Guardian?

Bod