Can Social Services override LPA decision going into care

JanNatty

New member
Feb 18, 2020
1
0
Hi All Thanks for letting me join,
Sorry for the long winded piece but I am at my wits end, I have been looking after parents both with dementia mum 87yrs worse than dad and he's 94yrs. I have been fighting with Social Services since my mum was diagnosed last year April. They both had an assessment and a financial one, due to them owning their own home and small amount of savings they don't seem interested and leaving all aspects of their care to me to put into place. I do have both LPA for both parents.
I managed to provide a paid private Homecare carers with me helping also to look after them, first was just once a day then gradually moved up to 3 times a day, 1hr in the morning 1hr lunch then half hr evening. but after 4 months my mum deteriorated quite quickly, she became quiet violent towards the carer and twice towards me which was most upsetting. I found myself even with homecare going in spending a lot of time running around after them, either shopping, washing, and as mum had sundowners going in through the night as she would ring me asking for help as dad might have fallen and couldn't get up as he was getting worse mainly mobility side with some memory loss. many a time i would turn up at night with all lights on heaters on full and cooker hob on with pans near by (fire hazard). So after considerable thought and pleading with SS to step in which they didn't, I decided to put both parents into respite self-funding in local residential with dementia unit care home for 4weeks with the plan if they settle for it to become permanent. I was not able to carry on looking after them safely and work and also I have a husband that needs looking after.

The question is,-- if they don't settle but they both don't have capacity to make decisions can Social Services over ride my decision as LPA and send them back home if they both want to go home?
I have talked to the doctor and due to the fact they are self-funding at present for another 3 month with cash savings then the property will come into play, they live in a rural location 3 miles from nearest town and amenities shops, with no transport except me, they would not be save to live back home as the care they both need between them is 24/7 and there is no local homecare available to cover their area. I have also been told the care home I have chosen their fees are above Social Services ceiling rate, which means once part funding or full funding comes into play they will need to be moved 23 miles away to a nursing home of SS choice as i'm not able finically to pay top up fees. I'm finding Social Services are not helping because my parents are mainly self-funding at this time and it was me who placed them in the home. I can't get another financial assessment with them in a care home, until they either settle or not.
 

Cat27

Registered User
Feb 27, 2015
13,057
0
Merseyside
Welcome to DTP @JanNatty. Are there any place in the nursing home of choice for social services? Would you be happy with that home?
Please keep posting as you’ll receive lots of support here.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,324
0
Surely your parents will be self funding for quite some time, given there is a property to sell? In which case, SS are unlikely to be interested, which is to your advantage in the sense you should be able to make the necessary decisions without their input.

If your parents do keep asking to go home, they will be assessed by SS and a best interests meeting will take place. However if they are not insistent on going home, it's unlikely SS will take any interest. I moved my mother to a care home two years ago, I didn't get her agreement at the time but she is happy there, SS know she has moved there but have never queried it.

If by any chance SS do get involved and recommend your parents should return home, emphasise very strongly that you do not support the decision and that you will refuse to have any input into their home care because you do not believe it is safe or in their interests.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
7,334
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Nottinghamshire
If by any chance SS do get involved and recommend your parents should return home, emphasise very strongly that you do not support the decision and that you will refuse to have any input into their home care because you do not believe it is safe or in their interests.

This I what I had to do to keep my dad safely in his carehome although it was obvious to any sane person that he was absolutely not safe to be alone.
 

Pete1

Registered User
Jul 16, 2019
899
0
I'm finding Social Services are not helping because my parents are mainly self-funding at this time and it was me who placed them in the home. I can't get another financial assessment with them in a care home, until they either settle or not.

Hi @JanNatty, just in case you don't already know, your parents property doesn't need to sell immediately (in case you are worried that they only have three months funds without selling), you can request a deferred charge to be put on the property by the Local Authority (Social Services) who will pay the care costs and place a charge against the property to be deducted when the property is sold. So your parents will remain as self funders longer than the three months funding they currently have. Just in case you weren't aware.

I agree with the advice of @Bunpoots and @Sirena, although generally Social Services, in my experience, are not really interested if you are a self-funder and tend not to get involved.
 

pam56

Registered User
Jul 2, 2021
32
0
My Mum is receiving 117s care as she was sectioned under Section 3. She was detained in a mental hospital and then I was told she had to leave as they needed the bed. Originally going into a nursing home with spcialised dementia care nrses as she has very complex needs (as well as health problems) The SW went to a meeting and hey presto that went out the window and they put her in a residential home whose only specialism is that they lock the doors and carers have done a course in dementia, hardly comparable to 1st place. This 2nd home is deplorable, dementia paitients locked in a dining room, shouted at or left alone with just me in the room. I have complained etc and said she is not stopping their and want her moved. Now after doing a SARS found out SW is going behine my back and arranging another placement with same company. Again just residential. Can I take her out and self fund her. I would rather sell my house, cah in my pension etc than leave her there. I have been to see a wonderful hme, within budget who said they will asess her so written to SW to say that this is my preferred placement and I have a right to choose under the law.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,019
0
Bury
The responsibility for provisioning s117 is shared between the LA and CCG.
Have you informed the CCG of your concerns?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
24,920
0
South coast
TBH I am surprised that a residential home is willing to take on someone with dementia and 117 funding - a lot of homes would simply run for the hills! It sounds like your mum needs a dedicated dementia home/EMI unit at the very least and if your mum stayed where she is she could well end up being given notice.

The fact that this new home is being run by the same group does not necessarily mean that it will be run in the same way, most of the way it is run is up to the manager of the individual home. If the home you would like wont accept your mum, or it doesnt go through for some other reason, I would recommend that you contact the manager of this new home and talk to them. Stay calm and polite, but explain exactly what your mum is like and all the complex needs and ask them how they would manage it. You may find that this new home is much better. Alternatively, the new home may decide that they cannot manage your mum after all!
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
2,025
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67
London
The short answer is yes you can self fund a new care home of your choosing if you can find a suitable place. However if there is a denial of liberty safeguard order in place you will need to persuade the local authority to get it changed to stipulate the new care home.
 

pam56

Registered User
Jul 2, 2021
32
0
Hi
Thank you everone.

Nitram: Yes the CCG were in the last meeting I had so fully aware of situation.

Canary: They def wanted her and who wouldn't with that level of funding!! Want to keep her there as does SW. This new home has exactly same resources, no EMI/no Complex dementia unit just residential.

At first they came up with "it wouldn't be in best interests to be moved" They have blown this argument out of the water because when I got my SARS info (all 1,800 pages of it it shows the SW looking for another placement although I didn't know about this. They cannot use the argument, which they would have done if they could, that she is receiving the best care as I have evidence she is not.

The SW is acting as it is nothing to do with me despite me having the LPA for both Health & Finance. I read somewhere that even under 117 (new ruling) the LPA/Advocate etc has a right to choose their "preferred placement" if it meets 4 criteria. The home I have selected meets all of the conditions. The SW said it wouldn't meet my Mum's needs yet it has a nurse in resident (which Mum needs) and carers, facilities for Mum's well being etc etc and is far better equipped to deal with complex dementia.
 

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