DNAR / LPA health & welfare
- Thread starter yogamumma
- Start date
Do both.
H&W LPA allows the donor to write down their wishes ie do not prolong treatment etc & you as the attorney to make sure their wishes are followed if possible.
DNAR just says to medical staff that they can’t resuscitate.
H&W LPA allows the donor to write down their wishes ie do not prolong treatment etc & you as the attorney to make sure their wishes are followed if possible.
DNAR just says to medical staff that they can’t resuscitate.
DNAR is a legal document where the person states that in the event of their heart stopping they do not want any attempt to be made to resuscitate them ie brought back from the dead.
A H&W LPA gives the attorney power to make decisions as if they were the donor, there is a specific section about prolonged treatment.
A H&W LPA gives the attorney power to make decisions as if they were the donor, there is a specific section about prolonged treatment.
Its important to note if you hold LPA for health and welfare and the person you care for has lost capacity then you can help decide their resuscitation status. The final decision is legally a medical one, however doctors should take on board your view point in respect to the person you care for in their best interests.
We didn't have the LPA for welfare (long story) for my MIL but the hospital asked my husband his views and recorded the DNAR as agreed with him. In the very final days there was a discussion about withdrawing treatment and a fully informed decision made to discontinue life prolonging treatment and move to palliative care only. Although we were asked about LPA a few times, in reality the hospital discussed everything with us and my OH was allowed to make decisions. The only rather bizarre thing was the housekeeping staff kept bringing my MIL meals because she hadn't been put on nil by mouth! I gave up labouring the point about the waste of NHS funds on the third day to concentrate on just being there for MIL.
Yes that is the legal position but ultimately it is a medical decision as already mentioned. We had that discussion with the staff as we were worried that invisibles might step in and try to encourage resusitation but the doctor reassured us they would not do it on anyone's say so if it was not medically the best course of action. We did worry at times (needlessly as it turned out) that we might be overridden so you are right and it is a good idea to get this watertight while still possible.
The health LPA is most definitely more important than a DNR, as it covers a lot of other scenarios where you can make decisions about a donor's wellbeing. A DNR only deals with resuscitation, nothing else. So get the LPA as a matter of urgency, and discuss the DNR when the time comes.
I have been asked for copies of the H & W LPA on several occasions by hospitals also the GP, Social Services, Care Firms and Care Home.
The Banjoman has an Advance Directive which sets out whether or not he should receive treatment in certain situations.. This gives what appears at first to be simple instructions but turns out to be rather more problematic in practice but I can call upon it if required.
The Banjoman has an Advance Directive which sets out whether or not he should receive treatment in certain situations.. This gives what appears at first to be simple instructions but turns out to be rather more problematic in practice but I can call upon it if required.
My wife was recently admitted to hospital via A&E towards the end of her 2 weeks in respite, whilst I was on holiday. She had a bit of what they described as a "seizure" (which turned out to be possibly due to a UTI) and when her sister arrived at A&E, she was asked if my wife had a DNAR in place. Of course she wasn't sure and in the event, it wasn't needed but when I got back and my wife was back in the respite unit, I asked the manager there about DNARs.
I showed her my wife's registered LPA (H&WF), which indicated that her attorneys could make the DNR decisions. She explained that this is fine if we were present if and when an incident occurred but we would need a DNAR notice, issued by either a GP or hospital doctor, for situations where we could not be contacted.
As my wife was readmitted the following day, I took the opportunity to ask the consultant and she wrote out the form straightaway. Legally, it cannot be copied and it is placed in the patients file and transferred with them when they move locations. So it was sent with her to the respite unit, where she is now on a 6 week assessment to determine her ongoing care needs.
I showed her my wife's registered LPA (H&WF), which indicated that her attorneys could make the DNR decisions. She explained that this is fine if we were present if and when an incident occurred but we would need a DNAR notice, issued by either a GP or hospital doctor, for situations where we could not be contacted.
As my wife was readmitted the following day, I took the opportunity to ask the consultant and she wrote out the form straightaway. Legally, it cannot be copied and it is placed in the patients file and transferred with them when they move locations. So it was sent with her to the respite unit, where she is now on a 6 week assessment to determine her ongoing care needs.
The Gp will hold a copy of the DNAR from hospital but who informs paramedics, lifeline, carers etc as this has been an issue I’ve recently experienced.
The model Resuscitation Council (UK) form clearly says 'DO NOT PHOTOCOPY'.
This is to guard against anybody with capacity changing their mind and a, now invalid. photocopy being used. Arguably, dependent on entry in section 5, a person with H&W LPA could also do this.
In my wife's case the LPA was laminated and accompanied her wherever she went, whilst she was at home there was an obvious note giving its location.
My mum has her own copy at home and her GP has his.Mum's is in her cupboard where I know it is.So I would have to inform paramedics on the phone where it is.I have told mum to move it so people can see it but she won't.
There's a 'Message in a bottle' scheme which provides a plastic container, a form and stickers, and is widely available for free from GP surgeries, pharmacies, Age UK, carers groups etc: https://www.lions105d.org.uk/projects/miab.html
The form contains space for details such as health issues, medication, NOK and GP details and whether there is a DNAR in place. It is kept in the fridge and stickers are left in prominent places so that the emergency services know about it.
The form contains space for details such as health issues, medication, NOK and GP details and whether there is a DNAR in place. It is kept in the fridge and stickers are left in prominent places so that the emergency services know about it.
I know t
I know things are different here but there are certified copies of my Advanced Care Directive (which I believe is a more effective document than just a DNR) with my decision makers, my GP and our hospital. It forms part of my medical records which are part of our government's online health record system. My decision makers cannot make the decision about DNR without consultation with the doctors and the doctors cannot over ride my instructions in the directive. I have also POAs for Health and Welfare in place but that does not give anyone the power to make decisions about DNR.
I also believe that most doctors are becoming fairly realistic about frail aged and questions of intrusive treatment in serious illnesses.
I know things are different here but there are certified copies of my Advanced Care Directive (which I believe is a more effective document than just a DNR) with my decision makers, my GP and our hospital. It forms part of my medical records which are part of our government's online health record system. My decision makers cannot make the decision about DNR without consultation with the doctors and the doctors cannot over ride my instructions in the directive. I have also POAs for Health and Welfare in place but that does not give anyone the power to make decisions about DNR.
I also believe that most doctors are becoming fairly realistic about frail aged and questions of intrusive treatment in serious illnesses.
You certainly have a lot on your plate. I wish you strength as you move through what is ahead.
