Power of Attorney - Help Please!

[teamleam]

Hello,
My father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and dementia earlier in the year. Although he is in the early stages, we're looking to put legal safeguards in to prevent obstacles later with regards to his health and financial matters. Not really sure what we need but hopefully you can point me in the right direction.
My Dad is 80 years old and in otherwise pretty good health. He made a will in 2004 before my mother passed away (in 2009). Although my mother is mentioned, my brother and I are down as executors in her absence so assume the will is still 'current' and doesn't need updating.
He also has a living will / advance directive dated 2004.
He also has an Enduring Power of Attorney for property and affairs dated 2004, again signed by my mother but I am down as an attorney.
My enquiry is around whether or not these documents need updating or require newer products such as lasting POA for health and finance.
Many thanks in advance for your help and guidance.
Regards, Alex Dempsey

 

[Louise7]

Welcome. LPA's are more flexible than EPA's and cover health issues rather than just financial - take a look at the attached fact sheet as it will hopefully answer all your questions: https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/lasting-power-of-attorney-faq

 

[canary]

As your dad still has capacity and his will and EPA was made before his wife passed away, it would make sense, IMO, to update them all.

You dont have to go through a solicitor if you dont want to. The forms can be filled online and sent for registration.

 

[teamleam]

Welcome. LPA's are more flexible than EPA's and cover health issues rather than just financial - take a look at the attached fact sheet as it will hopefully answer all your questions:

Thank you Louise. I have seen these but just trying to see if we need new products or is what we've got still legal/relevant …. might have to get legal advice?

 

[teamleam]

As your dad still has capacity and his will and EPA was made before his wife passed away, it would make sense, IMO, to update them all.

You dont have to go through a solicitor if you dont want to. The forms can be filled online and sent for registration.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, this what I was leaning towards. I am going to use the existing enduring PoA to take on some financial affairs as we have had some fraud activity. I guess if that is suitable it's still valid!! Thank you.

 

[Sirena]

My OH and I have EPAs for each other, taken about over 20 years ago and we are planning to update them to LPAs.

In your position I'd see a solicitor as the Will needs updating too. I know you can do it all yourself, but I'd be worried about not noticing something vital.

Plus, you do not want to let the original LPAs out of your grasp, ever, so if you are sending paperwork through the post to banks or other organisations you will need certified copies, and the solicitor can provide these for you (mine charges £25 per certified copy). You can ask the donor (your dad) to self-certify but some organisations are refusing to accept this now.

 

[teamleam]

My OH and I have EPAs for each other, taken about over 20 years ago and we are planning to update them to LPAs.

In your position I'd see a solicitor as the Will needs updating too. I know you can do it all yourself, but I'd be worried about not noticing something vital.

Plus, you do not want to let the original LPAs out of your grasp, ever, so if you are sending paperwork through the post to banks or other organisations you will need certified copies, and the solicitor can provide these for you (mine charges £25 per certified copy). You can ask the donor (your dad) to self-certify but some organisations are refusing to accept this now.

Thank you for your reply. It's a real minefield and yes, you can do it LPAs online through gov.uk, but I think we need a full review. Thanks.

 

[nae sporran]

AgeUK were great with us and helped fill out the forms. You can ring the Office of the Public Guardian to check the status of a previous EPA and get advice on revoking it to replace with a new one.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

 

[teamleam]

AgeUK were great with us and helped fill out the forms. You can ring the Office of the Public Guardian to check the status of a previous EPA and get advice on revoking it to replace with a new one.

Thank you for your reply - seems like a good place to start, thanks!

 

[Beate]

Also get a heth LPA at the same time!

 

[teamleam]

Also get a heth LPA at the same time!

Absolutely!! Thank you

 

[nitram]

I am going to use the existing enduring PoA to take on some financial affairs as we have had some fraud activity. I guess if that is suitable it's still valid!!

To use the EPA it will have first to be registered, at a cost, with the OPG and then should only be used if your father is incapable of taking the action himself.
Guidance says that the EPA should be registered as soon as the donor has lost capacity or is loosing capacity.

I agree that LPAs are far more versatile and better and that you should aim to get your father to grant them.

If using the EPA be careful that you don't lock your father out of granting lPA, he would have to revoke a registered EPA and can only do this and make an LPA if he has capacity.

As an interim measure if your father has capacity have you considered a 'ordinary power of attorney'
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/#types

It's not a complicated document as can be seen by the many proformas scattered around the web, here's an example indicating the simplicity,
Best contact a solicitor to make sure it will suit your purpose, a solicitor as witness could be useful, also they could make you some certified copies.

 

[teamleam]

To use the EPA it will have first to be registered, at a cost, with the OPG and then should only be used if your father is incapable of taking the action himself.
Guidance says that the EPA should be registered as soon as the donor has lost capacity or is loosing capacity.

I agree that LPAs are far more versatile and better and that you should aim to get your father to grant them.

If using the EPA be careful that you don't lock your father out of granting lPA, he would have to revoke a registered EPA and can only do this and make an LPA if he has capacity.

As an interim measure if your father has capacity have you considered a 'ordinary power of attorney'

It's not a complicated document as can be seen by the many proformas scattered around the web, here's an example indicating the simplicity,
Best contact a solicitor to make sure it will suit your purpose, a solicitor as witness could be useful, also they could make you some certified copies.

View attachment 61151

Thank you for your reply - such a minefield and now an OPA! I think the EPA is registered but not clear on the document. I'm setting up a review of all these so hopefully things will be clearer. Thanks.

 

[nitram]

The registered copy will have an OPG stamp, perforation, or hologram depending on when it was registered.

You can check for free if it has been registered
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/search-public-guardian-registers

Unlike the current LPA registering an EPA requires several people to be informed
https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

Be careful how you proceed, using a registered EPA implies that you consider your father to have lost capacity to take the action.

If you later approach the same institution with an LPA dated after the use of the EPA they could query the capacity of your father when granting the LPA


Regarding the will.
Anything left to your mother will become residue and distributed to any other
beneficiaries.
If she was sole beneficiary he will be considered to have died intestate and the intestacy rules will apply.
Only reason for new will is if he wishes to change the distribution in any way.

 

[nitram]

Sample registered EPA
https://assets.publishing.service.g...539491/EPA-sample-with-registration-stamp.pdf

The peroration on the lower margin should go through all sheets.

 

[teamleam]

The registered copy will have an OPG stamp, perforation, or hologram depending on when it was registered.

You can check for free if it has been registered


Unlike the current LPA registering an EPA requires several people to be informed


Be careful how you proceed, using a registered EPA implies that you consider your father to have lost capacity to take the action.

If you later approach the same institution with an LPA dated after the use of the EPA they could query the capacity of your father when granting the LPA


Regarding the will.
Anything left to your mother will become residue and distributed to any other
beneficiaries.
If she was sole beneficiary he will be considered to have died intestate and the intestacy rules will apply.
Only reason for new will is if he wishes to change the distribution in any way.

This all makes sense. Thank you so much.

 

[teamleam]

Sample registered EPA

The peroration on the lower margin should go through all sheets.

Yes. I understand. Thank you. It's old and not registered. Planning on acquiring both LPAs.

 

[nitram]

Unless a clause has been added to the EPA preventing use whilst your father has capacity it can be used.
I would not try to do this as institutions can have trouble understanding LPA and are likely to get extremely confused when presented with an unregistered EPA

If you do the LPAs yourself doing them online is best, you will be prevented from missing essential, or making conflicting entries.
You can store online and return to edit as much as you like, when happy you can pay the registration fee by card and print off the documents for signing and posting to the OPG
There are plenty of guidance notes visible as you go along.

 

[teamleam]

Unless a clause has been added to the EPA preventing use whilst your father has capacity it can be used.
I would not try to do this as institutions can have trouble understanding LPA and are likely to get extremely confused when presented with an unregistered EPA

If you do the LPAs yourself doing them online is best, you will be prevented from missing essential, or making conflicting entries.
You can store online and return to edit as much as you like, when happy you can pay the registration fee by card and print off the documents for signing and posting to the OPG
There are plenty of guidance notes visible as you go along.

This is fab. Thank you for your help, really appreciate it. I have a meeting with the testamentary advisor who dealt with my mother's estate but will probably save by doing the LPAs via gov.uk as it's been made pretty easy to understand.