Third Party

[Buddy Boo]

Hello, as a family we have just agreed for Mum to have residential care. My question is regarding Third Party Top ups.... we fully understand the concept and reason for the third party top up, but do we/can we get the money back from Mum's estate when she passes??

Sounds very mercenary but some family members will only help if we can assure them they will get their money back.....:-(

 

[Beate]

No. That would go against the whole concept of third-party top-ups. If they were recoverable, they would be first-party top-ups. When she dies, inheritance rules or a will are going to determine what everyone gets.

 

[canary]

Hello @Clare.Gregory and welcome to Talking Point.
I really dont think that you can promise this - you dont know how much you will end up spending on the top-ups and if you are paying them this means that your mum has less than £14,000. The top-ups can (and will) go up while she is there as she requires more care, plus the annual increase (often greater than inflation) and depending on how long she is there it could end up being more than she has. Your mum will also need her savings for things like new clothes, toiletries, outings, chiropodist, hairdresser and then eventually, the funeral. She may not have enough to cover the costs of the top-up fees once she passes away.

No-one has to pay top-up fees and if there will be family quarrels over it, then I really think it might be best to think again about where she will move to. The most expensive homes are not always the best, and the cheapest homes are not always the worst. Mum was in a cheap care home that was scruffy, but the caring was excellent

 

[Amethyst59]

Hello, @Clare.Gregory ...I would echo what Canary says...have a good look at all aspects of homes. I’ve recently had to do it myself. It’s true that the most expensive are by no means always the best. Try to look beyond decor to the quality of care. It may be you won’t need top up fees at all.

 

[try again]

I thought with third party top ups the pwd pays while the money is there and third party only took over when the savings went below the 23k?

 

[canary]

I thought with third party top ups the pwd pays while the money is there and third party only took over when the savings went below the 23k?

Above £23,000 you are self-funding and the Local Authority doesnt contribute anything. The LA starts to pay towards the fees once you get down to £23,000, but only pays their full amount once you get down to £14,000

 

[Beate]

I thought with third party top ups the pwd pays while the money is there and third party only took over when the savings went below the 23k?

The third party isn't the council, it's a family member. The first party, ie the PWD is by law entitled to keep the last £14,250 of their money so if a top-up is payable, they cannot be asked to pay for it. On the other hand, family members can't be forced either, so it's a bit of a contentious topic.

 

[try again]

Sorry , I meant I thought third party payment by relatives did not happen until the pwd went below the limit . So of some one had enough to self fund the full cost for 5 years then relatives would need to chip in after that time to top up what the la would not pay.

 

[canary]

Sorry , I meant I thought third party payment by relatives did not happen until the pwd went below the limit . So of some one had enough to self fund the full cost for 5 years then relatives would need to chip in after that time to top up what the la would not pay.

I believe the third party top-ups come into play only once they reach the lower threshold of £14,250, though its possible there might be a sliding scale of what they need to pay between the upper and lower figure. Certainly the relatives will not paying the full amount of top-up fees until they reach the lower limit.

 

[Kevinl]

I thought with third party top ups the pwd pays while the money is there and third party only took over when the savings went below the 23k?

If you have over £23k then there is no top up, you're a self funder and you pay all the bill yourself so a top up doesn't exist in that situation. Under £23k when the LA start to help then the PWD cannot pay the top up to stay in a home over the LA budget it has to be a third party top up.
I think getting into a situation where you claim the money back after someone passes away is a bad idea and technically isn't allowed, although you could come to a private arrangement.
Let's say an estate was split equally 5 ways but only 3 of the people had contributed towards the top up, they couldn't take their top up money back before the 5 way split unless some form of loans agreement had been agreed and a pwd can't agree (usually).
So effectively the people paying the top up would be paying from their share of any inheritance.
K