Loans and POA

Alybag

Registered User
Jul 15, 2017
5
0
Hello, new member here. I have joint enduring POA with my sister for my mum. Can anyone advise on the position of getting a loan from Mum, and the way to go about it? Is it even possible if I am POA? (It's to get a new (to us) car to be able to continue to visit mum in her Res Care).
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,678
0
Midlands
As POA you are deemed to act 'in mums best interests' so it would very much depend on her financial state at the time.

The obvious is 'no'
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
hello Alybag
this link may help you
https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/property-financial-affairs
an Attorney may not benefit financially from being an Attorney
I think you need to contact the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG)and ask them, and it looks as though you would at least have to get permission from the Court of Protection (COP)
contact details at the bottom of this page
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview
probably best to search around and get a loan from a bank/building society to keep your financial situation separate from your mum's
 

Alybag

Registered User
Jul 15, 2017
5
0
Thank you - will have a look at those links. It is really frustrating as I gave up returning to work in part to be able to care for and now visit Mum, so have no income to be a good candidate for a bank related loan. May speak with her solicitors and see what they advise also.
 

nicoise

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
1,806
0
I wonder why her bank suggested it? ....

Possibly because they don't really understand POA and its boundaries either.

I suspect the solicitors will echo what has been written in other replies on this thread already.
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,057
0
Salford
I know it's not a lot but if your mother is not in receipt of Attendance Allowance, she should apply, as it's not means-tested but needs-based, and also means you can apply for Carers Allowance:

You could only get AA if the mother is self funding and as she's in residential care then you can't get Carers Allowance as far as I know.

As an LPA you have to act in your mother's best interest so if you did borrow the money I think you'd have to pay interest at least equal to what she would get if the money was invested, have a formal loans agreement and a repayment plan at the very least I would have thought.
A High Street solicitor may or may not know the answer, I'd use a specialist one if possible AGEUK may be able to advise which local solicitors specialise in issues concerning older people.
K
 

Alybag

Registered User
Jul 15, 2017
5
0
Thanks everyone. Good advice. Its a chicken and egg situ, as we don't need a car, but to visit Mum.... who is self funding and in private specialist Care. The proceeds of her house sale (2 years ago) are invested, but realising very little as they need to be accessible to pay the fees. Any loan would have been in writing and paid back monthly anyway, as it has been in the distant past. Will contact Office of Guardian and see whether its possible at all. Its difficult, isn't it? The pre Alz Mum would be distraught to know that we are faced with financial difficulties because of her condition. Such a horrible disease!
 
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nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,077
0
Bury
Leaning the perennial catchphrase of Professor C.E.M. Joad, 'It all depends what you mean by'

The COP will have to be involved with any loan.

If your mother has ~£100k and, allowing for care fees, ~£5k can be loaned to you for 1 year, and you pay interest (best for 1 yr deposit I know of at the moment is 1.85%), and you can prove that, in addition to repayments, you can afford insurance and other running costs, and you can show that use of the car will be primarily (but not exclusively) in your mother's benefit you might have a slim chance of the COP agreeing.

Additionally it will all have to be set up legally (which may cost), not forgetting that your mother's interest will be included in her income for tax purposes.

Coming down to reality, there is an argument that reasonable transport costs, depending on circumstances maybe taxis, to visit your mother could be in her best interests. As you have an EPA, rather than a deputyship, you don't have to produce accounts. You have to be accountable for any expenses if anybody starts an investigation as to where the money has gone.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
Nitram makes a good point. Cars can be expensive, not just the initial purchase, but there is tax to consider, insurance, petrol and repairs. If you only need a car for the sole purpose to visit her, and the public transport or taxi costs are not sky high, then you might be able to reimburse yourself for these from your Mum's money, thus avoiding a complicated loan agreement. But I would ask the OPG first as it depends on how high those costs might be.
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
just thought I'd calculate for myself, to see the costs, and wonder how the OPG would see the situation

say a taxi fare one way is £10
visits 2 days a week
adds up to £2080 a year which it's suggested you may be able to take from your mum as expenses
(though I thought only travel expenses for Attorney business can be taken, not for social visits)

so fares soon add up, whoever is paying them

and there's no flexibility, so in an emergency you have to wait for the taxi etc

makes buying a cheap car look like a more sensible option - I'm assuming all expenses of running the car would be the owners

and if the loan is repaid in full with some interest, the mother wouldn't be out of pocket at all

though, if you
have no income to be a good candidate for a bank related loan
not sure how the loan is to be repaid
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,077
0
Bury
Another option.
Move the mother to a home nearer to either one, or both, of the attorneys.
 

nmintueo

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
844
0
UK
If you "have no income to be a good candidate for a bank related loan", how would you be able to pay off a loan from your mother?
 
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Aisling

Registered User
Dec 5, 2015
1,804
0
Ireland
Hello, new member here. I have joint enduring POA with my sister for my mum. Can anyone advise on the position of getting a loan from Mum, and the way to go about it? Is it even possible if I am POA? (It's to get a new (to us) car to be able to continue to visit mum in her Res Care).

POA is a legal document and it carries huge responsibilities. Your Mum has trusted you with this responsibility. I don't think borrowing money from her to buy a car is a good idea. It is your mums money to be used for her.

Aisling
 

jo gayle

New member
Jan 5, 2024
1
0
Hello, new member here. I have joint enduring POA with my sister for my mum. Can anyone advise on the position of getting a loan from Mum, and the way to go about it? Is it even possible if I am POA? (It's to get a new (to us) car to be able to continue to visit mum in her Res Care).
Honestly -you can't even dream how much $ it will cost for her care in the next 6 mo...My dad's at only 8 hrs a day is $8k/mo. That's his retirement income -which means he goes in the hole $4k a mo in bills, food etc. Most facilities are $10k/+mo and you're still paying property taxes on where she lives. Just borrow the money to fix the car you have. There will be a time down the road soon where you ll just have to sell whatever car you're trying to get. Believe me, she is going to need every penny she has in savings and then some. You might quickly be paying up to $1500/mo put of pocket like I am.
 

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