An issue of property and Probate

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
My Mum passed away a week ago. I have written on here before that my Brother did not live with my parents due to my Mums mental health and he went into care although I didnt and I never understood why not. Long and very sad story short - She has left my brother and I an equal share in her home. I, as POA was preparing to sell this home to fund residential care costs and had secured a buyer. Now my brother has said he wants to buy out my share to which I am agreeable, but he seems to think that as I was left the money in the Bank account I can pay for everything and that it is only me that needs Probate. He will not listen to me or my Solicitor and it has now got quite nasty.

Not only am I upset over the loss of my Mum, I am now really worried about the outcome of this pig headedness. He now wants a copy of the Will and a key to the property. What happens if he will not swear an Oath for Probate. (He signed the form). He seems to think that we now 'own' the home, but we dont until Probate is granted and he wont listen.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you :(
 

nicoise

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
1,806
0
Can your brother afford to buy your share of the house?

Unfortunately he is already causing problems with regard to finance, and doesn't seem to understand the process of executing a will - it doesn't bode well for the house share buying process. He will need a solicitor, which might help as a third party explaining things to him, as it sounds as though he already has some issues of resentment and lack of trust.

I would advise that you take some legal advice yourself in how to handle this - I know that will cost yet more money, it this could reach stalemate, and will cost more if it drags on.
 

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
Can your brother afford to buy your share of the house?

Unfortunately he is already causing problems with regard to finance, and doesn't seem to understand the process of executing a will - it doesn't bode well for the house share buying process. He will need a solicitor, which might help as a third party explaining things to him, as it sounds as though he already has some issues of resentment and lack of trust.

I would advise that you take some legal advice yourself in how to handle this - I know that will cost yet more money, it this could reach stalemate, and will cost more if it drags on.


He says he can - was talking about keeping the property, doing a little bit of work and selling it on. (Capital Gains there maybe?) He has not seen or spoken to my Mum for 18 years and that was only when he attended Dads funeral. I know he is miffed that I am left the cash in the Bank but I didnt make the Will and I did at one time think that I would offer him some or half but I cant, not now. My solicitor advised that he takes his own legal advice but he said she was not making sense. I do fear that this will drag on and cost. My poor Mum Im sure she would never have expected this :(
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,050
0
Salford
Now my brother has said he wants to buy out my share to which I am agreeable, but he seems to think that as I was left the money in the Bank account I can pay for everything and that it is only me that needs Probate.QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand this bit. The cost of the probate should come from your mum's estate and these costs along with any others like funeral costs, debt repayment or whatever should be paid before anyone inherits anything.
If you inherited all the cash then effectively that would mean that all the costs come from money due to you as far as I'm aware before you inherit.
Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear but normally all disbursements are paid before anyone get's anything and they are paid from the liquid assets not the sale of the property unless there are no liquid assets just the house.
You mum's estate should meet all its liabilities (probate included) then people inherit from the remaining assets as per the will.
I'd check what your solicitor is telling you is correct.
As always I might be wrong, it happens.
K
 

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
Are you both executors of the will?

Yes joint executors. As I have said in previous posts I do not have any issues with my Brother and I try to understand how he must feel, but I never had the perfect childhood and teens that he think I had. Im hoping that by the time Probate comes back he will have thought things through and be prepared to carry out his executorship properly. (i hope)
 

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
Now my brother has said he wants to buy out my share to which I am agreeable, but he seems to think that as I was left the money in the Bank account I can pay for everything and that it is only me that needs Probate.QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand this bit. The cost of the probate should come from your mum's estate and these costs along with any others like funeral costs, debt repayment or whatever should be paid before anyone inherits anything.
If you inherited all the cash then effectively that would mean that all the costs come from money due to you as far as I'm aware before you inherit.
Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear but normally all disbursements are paid before anyone get's anything and they are paid from the liquid assets not the sale of the property unless there are no liquid assets just the house.
You mum's estate should meet all its liabilities (probate included) then people inherit from the remaining assets as per the will.
I'd check what your solicitor is telling you is correct.
As always I might be wrong, it happens.
K

Basically my Brother does not want to sell my Mums home. Firstly he said he wants to rent it out and I dont, and now he wants to keep it for while and then sell. He has offered to give me my half of what it is worth. He thinks he does not need to have Grant of Probate to do this. What he does not understand is that we do not own it or anything until the Will has been proved. At the moment I am paying for all costs, overpayment of pension, probate fees, and the abortive house sale should it not proceed and these costs are starting to escalate. I did have someone from the DWP tell me to take the money from her account to cover costs but I cannot do that! If it comes from the liquid assets then so be it but I do not think it is fair that I have to pay his costs.
 
Last edited:

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,050
0
Salford
At the moment I am paying for all costs, overpayment of pension, probate fees, and the abortive house sale should it not proceed and these costs are starting to escalate. I did have someone from the DWP tell me to take the money from her account to cover costs but I cannot do that!.

Overpayment of pensions should come from the account they were paid into, probate fees should come from your mum's (cash) estate, house sale fees if you have a POA when the house was marketed can come from your mother's cash assets too provided she agreed to the sale or you had a POA when you entered into the sale.
The house sale comes after all this has been sorted and is outside all the payments that have to be made to settle your mum's probate debt/liabilities.
You personally should not be paying for overpaid pensions or probate fees they should be coming from your mum's estate and any costs should be paid by them via the solicitors concerned.
I am actually trying to be helpful although it might not sound that way, sorry if I do.
K
 

Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
0
Somerset
Hi Flake I read your post whilst I was in bed, but up now, and wanted to chip in :)

I am also currently dealing with my dads estate as he recently passed away, and what I have done is forze dads account and went straight to the solicitor and applied for grant of administration (no will) and any payments that are due, I have called them all and told them they would have to wait until the probate is done and then the payments would be made from this money.

I opened a stand alone account and any pension money that was owed to him I told them to put in this account and have just sat on it and done nothing until the Grant is done, which was done last week.

He has a flat that is for sale (has been since last September when he went into care) and again it stays as his estate and when its sold then the money from the sale will then be taken.

I have a brother and luckily he trusts me enough to let me deal with the whole thing and I was my dad POA person.

I am getting confused about the bank money part your talking about, if any bills need paying, then let them know they will have to wait until the probate is through, and then the bills are paid from this pot.....

Once probate is through and all bills paid, pensions sorted etc, then your brother can buy our your half of the house then?

Surely he understands this? what is his main issue?
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,677
0
Midlands
When your Mum died, her will came into play, and actually you should have informed all parties of this, because actually things HAVE changed.

As an executor he does have a right to a copy of the will, and I, like him, wouldn't sign anything until I had seen it.

I think your argument about not 'until probate is through' is just splitting hairs.All probate does is give someone the right to deal with an estate ( so neither you nor he can do anything anyway until probate is grated - which includes completing on the sale of the property)

Diembursements do come from the money left in the bank- any overpaid pensions payments, outstanding bills etc.

When probate comes through, what do you propose? Continuing with the house sale and banking the cash?

( being completely hones , if you mum only died a week go, you are charging on quite quickly whilst people are very emotionally charged)
 
Last edited:

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
Overpayment of pensions should come from the account they were paid into, probate fees should come from your mum's (cash) estate, house sale fees if you have a POA when the house was marketed can come from your mother's cash assets too provided she agreed to the sale or you had a POA when you entered into the sale.
The house sale comes after all this has been sorted and is outside all the payments that have to be made to settle your mum's probate debt/liabilities.
You personally should not be paying for overpaid pensions or probate fees they should be coming from your mum's estate and any costs should be paid by them via the solicitors concerned.
I am actually trying to be helpful although it might not sound that way, sorry if I do.
K

Thank you Kevin I just needed to see it in writing and I am now clearer. And yes you have been very helpful. Thanks xx
 

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
Thank you all for your comments. Yes I think I have charged in a little quick and I think that is my coping mechanism - keep busy and probably too busy. Have been running around for the last few years and it feels strange to slow down and chill.

I have done the Probate myself and am now completing the Inheritance Tax part.

I am not gong to stress about this any more - think that maybe my brother does care a little and that could be his reaction but as we have never been close that is difficult to tell.

I understand that as the accounts are frozen I will pay for now and get reimbursed from the estate.
Thank you all ....... for everything :) x
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
I understand that as the accounts are frozen I will pay for now and get reimbursed from the estate. x
Personally I would be worried about doing it this way. You need to ensure you keep detailed records and suppose there's not enough money left at the end to repay you?

With your mother's death the house sale/ transfer may not be able to proceed so speedily and then you could lose out.
Council Tax is still payable for an empty property in most LAs these days. So will all the standing charges on utility bills and the insurance company will want reassurance you have secured the property (might make it invalid if not) and will want it checking on a weekly basis for leaks etc.
You simply cannot afford to be paying out those costs on your own.
 

Flake

Registered User
Mar 9, 2015
222
0
Personally I would be worried about doing it this way. You need to ensure you keep detailed records and suppose there's not enough money left at the end to repay you?

With your mother's death the house sale/ transfer may not be able to proceed so speedily and then you could lose out.
Council Tax is still payable for an empty property in most LAs these days. So will all the standing charges on utility bills and the insurance company will want reassurance you have secured the property (might make it invalid if not) and will want it checking on a weekly basis for leaks etc.
You simply cannot afford to be paying out those costs on your own.

Thank you Lemonjuice. Point taken. The current sale is still running although it cannot proceed without Probate that is why I did it myself and took it to the Probate office, and to save time. I have spoken to the household insurance company as that is paid up until May. Water is ok. I have just paid gas and electricity I just have to inform them of my Mums passing, same with Council Tax.

I stlil pop round to her home every other day - A habit I cant get out of just yet!

But I think I will now pass the rest over to a Solicitor. x