Doe anyone know how the Irish system works with regards to carehomes

[a155sjd]

Really not sure where to start.

My dad has a stroke in 2013 and had some memory problems arising from it but as he lives in Southern Ireland and I live in England I dont see him much. (I do ring but hes never been great at answering the phone or even talking on it)

2 weeks ago I found out he'd been in hospital after having a fall overnight (he'd been in hospital 6 weeks before a family member thought to tell me - my parents divorced and his side of the family dont have anything to do with me or my sister)

On talking to the hospital it turns out he has dementia, they were about to let him return to his flat (rented) as he wasnt a danger to himself but I had just found out he has been conned out of 12k by his cleaner/carer/friend.

My dad does not have me down as next of kin but a distant relative (cousin a few times removed as she lives near him)

The hospital have applied for funding for him to go into a carehome without discussing it with me- I cant get through to his social worker as the number is engaged and the staff at the hosp tell me they cant tell me what's going on and the sw will call me back (I'm still waiting for a Dr's and SW's call back from last week)

Does anyone know can they put him into a home without informing me, I dont even know how bad his dementia really is and when I speak to the nurses they just tell me he's fine

I dont know how the Irish system works and I feel all at sea as its all been a big shock (Dad has always been forgetful and mixed up people even when I was a small child so I hadnt noticed anything different when talking to him on the phone).

I'm assuming that if they do get his 80% of income he will still be liable for any rent and utility bills on his rented place until I (or someone) surrenders it - can the SW/medical team do this on his behalf does anyone know?

I can't even just drop everything as I have my kids (4&8) and no-one who can look after them whilst my OH is at work at short notice.

 

[Shedrech]

Hi a155sjd
and welcome to TP
looks as though there's a lot going on right now with your dad; I appreciate how concerned you must be, so I'm glad you've found the forum to ask questions and get support
there is a number of members from Ireland who will be able to help with understanding the system over there - so maybe have a mooch around the site, as there's lots of useful general info here, while they have a chance to notice your post and respond
the SWs will be acting in your dad's best interests as they understand them - certainly in England, SS are reluctant to place someone in a care home unless it is necessary (often organising up to 4 home care visits a day to support the person in their own home) - he will be safe there and looked after 24 hours a day
there are restrictions on what medical staff may disclose even to close relatives, so I hope the SW gets back to you so you can chat things over and get a clearer picture
sorry not to be of immediate help
best wishes

 

[Aisling]

Really not sure where to start.

My dad has a stroke in 2013 and had some memory problems arising from it but as he lives in Southern Ireland and I live in England I dont see him much. (I do ring but hes never been great at answering the phone or even talking on it)

2 weeks ago I found out he'd been in hospital after having a fall overnight (he'd been in hospital 6 weeks before a family member thought to tell me - my parents divorced and his side of the family dont have anything to do with me or my sister)

On talking to the hospital it turns out he has dementia, they were about to let him return to his flat (rented) as he wasnt a danger to himself but I had just found out he has been conned out of 12k by his cleaner/carer/friend.

My dad does not have me down as next of kin but a distant relative (cousin a few times removed as she lives near him)

The hospital have applied for funding for him to go into a carehome without discussing it with me- I cant get through to his social worker as the number is engaged and the staff at the hosp tell me they cant tell me what's going on and the sw will call me back (I'm still waiting for a Dr's and SW's call back from last week)

Does anyone know can they put him into a home without informing me, I dont even know how bad his dementia really is and when I speak to the nurses they just tell me he's fine

I dont know how the Irish system works and I feel all at sea as its all been a big shock (Dad has always been forgetful and mixed up people even when I was a small child so I hadnt noticed anything different when talking to him on the phone).

I'm assuming that if they do get his 80% of income he will still be liable for any rent and utility bills on his rented place until I (or someone) surrenders it - can the SW/medical team do this on his behalf does anyone know?

I can't even just drop everything as I have my kids (4&8) and no-one who can look after them whilst my OH is at work at short notice.

Keep phoning his SW daily if you can. Tell them he is a vulnerable adult. Does Next of kin contact you? I live in Ireland so if you want to PM me do so please.

Aisling.

 

[a155sjd]

Keep phoning his SW daily if you can. Tell them he is a vulnerable adult. Does Next of kin contact you? I live in Ireland so if you want to PM me do so please.

Aisling.

Thanks Aisling - his next of kin doesnt want to make any decisions relating to his care -(she's elderly herself and rang my cousin in London to get her to call me to take charge), she has asked the hospital to contact me but they don't but have told her they are waiting for me to come over.

I'm just worried they will put him in a carehome without telling me and then they'll invoke the fair deal thingy which means he'll only have access to 20% of his income (pension) and then he'll still be stuck with his utility bills and rent as no-one will have cancelled it.

Or alternatively I'll fly over and then have to fly over again as things are not in place and it is hard sorting stuff out from overseas.

They now know he's a vulnerable adult as I had to tell them he'd been conned out of the money as they were about to discharge him back home once he'd fought off his infection. They were going to add an additional 30 mins care visit to his current care package but I said I was worried he would get conned again if he was left alone.

The SW said she'd update me after speaking to the medical team but hasnt. I now have emailed her and will keep emailing her as well as calling (in the hope that someone will talk to me cos they are sick to me badgering them)

I dont even know when they diagnosed him with dementia or what stage it is as all the nurses say is he's doing fine or grand.

 

[MollyD]

Hi there.

I'm Irish too.

I agree with Aisling. Keep calling and leaving messages with the SW. Speaking to them in person as this proceeds is crucial. I'm not sure how next of kin works if the named person wants no involvement. Has your dad capacity to add you as next of kin also?

 

[HillyBilly]

Also try contacting the Alzheimer Society of Ireland
http://www.alzheimer.ie/Home.aspx
Their site will point you in the direction of useful nos in your Dad's area.

 

[Aisling]

Thanks Aisling - his next of kin doesnt want to make any decisions relating to his care -(she's elderly herself and rang my cousin in London to get her to call me to take charge), she has asked the hospital to contact me but they don't but have told her they are waiting for me to come over.

I'm just worried they will put him in a carehome without telling me and then they'll invoke the fair deal thingy which means he'll only have access to 20% of his income (pension) and then he'll still be stuck with his utility bills and rent as no-one will have Hcancelled it.

Or alternatively I'll fly over and then have to fly over again as things are not in place and it is hard sorting stuff out from overseas.

They now know he's a vulnerable adult as I had to tell them he'd been conned out of the money as they were about to discharge him back home once he'd fought off his infection. They were going to add an additional 30 mins care visit to his current care package but I said I was worried he would get conned again if he was left alone.

The SW said she'd update me after speaking to the medical team but hasnt. I now have emailed her and will keep emailing her as well as calling (in the hope that someone will talk to me cos they are sick to me badgering them)

I dont even know when they diagnosed him with dementia or what stage it is as all the nurses say is he's doing fine or grand.

Is your Dad able to name you as his Next of kin. Taking his money is abuse but you know that. Is he able to sign an enduring Power of attorney? Keep " badgering " social worker. Does your Dad need full time care? Write a letter to SW and keep a copy. Emails in my experience can get lost.

If full time care is the best option, then I think he may have to cancel his rented flat but of course not until he has full time care. It would be financially difficult to keep both going. This must be heartbreakingly difficult for you.

Re Fair Deal, it all depends on his savings and pension. He is allowed to have around 30 k in savings. Full time care then look at all his assets and then take 80 percent of his pension. I may be totally wrong and don't want to scare you but SW. should be able to give you more info. That's all I know but everyone is different

As far as I am aware, the hospital can't just discharge him but other TPs will be able to tell you more.

Aisling

 

[a155sjd]

Thanks all,

Spoken to SW - she was just about to call me.......

Anyway his medical team have assessed he needs full time care. He only gets a pension and some help with his rent from the govt. He now has no savings as they were stolen (I need to chase up on this to see where the police are)

The SW is sending over the financial paperwork for the care home for me to start (she mentioned it needs to be completed within 15 working days), she said she'll speak to his rental ppl (he rents from a Housing association and she already has contacted them as my dad had rental arrears due to him being in hosp)

I won't be able to get any power of attorney etc as they say his mental capacity is impaired. Does anyone know if the bank will allow my dad to add me as a third party to his account (so I can stop or flag anything that is suspicious) - asked SW but she said I need to speak directly to bank... just worried will hit data protection brick wall.

SW has referred my dad to vulnerable adults unit (from my last call but hasnt heard anything so she will chase this)

Thanks for the link will take a look at it and hopefully make a list of things to get sorted

 

[MollyD]

I'd speak to a solicitor or at least get water tight advice re his bank account. *Don't* tell the bank your dad has no capacity because they'll freeze his account.

This is terribly difficult for you. My heart goes out to you but you'll get there. Ring the Irish Alzheimer's society as well if you can. X

 

[a155sjd]

Well fair deal paperwork completed from my side (SW needs to get copies of bank statements from Garda who is investigating the person who stole his savings)

Medical team just dont want to speak to me - I call and ask for a call back and it just doesnt happen...

I am now trying to contact the Housing association whom he rents from - SW said she was dealing with them but it turns out she was only dealing with his rent arrears (she arranged for his cheques to go directly to them rather than having to be cashed at post office).

As well as all that I need to cancel his utilities on his flat so I am waiting for the Housing association to provide me with companies they deal with (hoping he has to use these - and its difficult seeing as I don't even know what companies or what bills he'd be liable for as I've never lived in Ireland)

She seems to have taken a step back from him (she's the SW in the hospital so I dont know if that changes things) as she seemed to want to help more in my first conversation with her.

She mentioned that they will be hoping to move him to a CH asap or if the funding doesnt come in place first then to a step down convalescense unit in Dublin.

I've arranged to go over early August but it seems that this might be too late as she was asking for carehome preferences but I can't afford to go over lots of times nor can I arrange the time off work or alternative childcare (no family nearby) and over in Ireland there is no family who could check out care homes on my behalf.

At the moment I just feel like throwing the duvet over my head and not coming out until its all sorted ....

 

[HillyBilly]

So sorry you're getting the runaround.
This site provides a list of nursing homes here http://www.nhi.ie/directory.php
There is also, somewhere, an online directory of the fees that they charge, for comparison purposes. Sorry, don't have the link to hand but Google is your friend - it's all quite transparent over here, not like in the UK. Some homes have Facebook pages, websites and so on, so you might be able to get an idea of them before you visit - it might come down to who has a vacancy as there are often waiting lists.
Don't fret too much about the utilities for now - it'll all come out in the wash as they say.

 

[a155sjd]

So sorry you're getting the runaround.
This site provides a list of nursing homes here
There is also, somewhere, an online directory of the fees that they charge, for comparison purposes. Sorry, don't have the link to hand but Google is your friend - it's all quite transparent over here, not like in the UK. Some homes have Facebook pages, websites and so on, so you might be able to get an idea of them before you visit - it might come down to who has a vacancy as there are often waiting lists.
Don't fret too much about the utilities for now - it'll all come out in the wash as they say.

Thank you - have already emailed a few homes from the list (using google maps to see how close they are to Malahide)

today is a better day

 

[HillyBilly]

Here is the link to the HSE page with nursing home fees - one list for HSE homes and one for private homes.
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/costs.html

 

[topsy1]

few more tips

Hope you are now sorted and dont need any more advice but if not, this may help. Yes, you have the right to 3rd party mandate if your dad goes into the bank with you but as before, dont mention dementia! Here in Ireland the public health nurse has to sign the care home application, also the GP. So you could contact both these and find out what stage the application is at. Hopefully your cousin will know who is the GP and the GP will tell you who the PHN is for your Dad. The Bed Manager at the hospital is also a very helpful person who may be able to let you know what is going on. All this has happened very suddenly for you. Its difficult to know what the alternatives to going into a care home would be. I presume that having Dad over to live with you is not an option. What about sheltered accommodation?
I really feel for you in this predicament. But the Alzheimers Soc and other organisations who care about the welfare of the elderly should be able to give advice. There is Alone.ie whose object is to allow the elderly to live in their own homes as long as possible. Also Ageaction.ie

 

[LadyA]

Sorry - I've only just seen this thread!
Somewhere in the bowels of TP, I have posted an "Info for people in Ireland" link which gives links to all sorts of information for people over here. I'll see if I can find it again.

Here it is in the "helpful websites" section: http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...ople-in-Ireland&highlight=Info+people+Ireland

Hope there's something there that's useful.

 

[a155sjd]

Hope you are now sorted and dont need any more advice but if not, this may help. Yes, you have the right to 3rd party mandate if your dad goes into the bank with you but as before, dont mention dementia! Here in Ireland the public health nurse has to sign the care home application, also the GP. So you could contact both these and find out what stage the application is at. Hopefully your cousin will know who is the GP and the GP will tell you who the PHN is for your Dad. The Bed Manager at the hospital is also a very helpful person who may be able to let you know what is going on. All this has happened very suddenly for you. Its difficult to know what the alternatives to going into a care home would be. I presume that having Dad over to live with you is not an option. What about sheltered accommodation?
I really feel for you in this predicament. But the Alzheimers Soc and other organisations who care about the welfare of the elderly should be able to give advice. There is Alone.ie whose object is to allow the elderly to live in their own homes as long as possible. Also Ageaction.ie

Hi Topsy

Thanks for posting, he's still in hospital and they will only discharge him to a care home or step down unit as he doesnt have sufficient support in Ireland.

He'd never agree to come back to England, he left here after his divorce (although all tthrough my childhood he tried to convince my mum to move to Ireland but as she was English and his family hated her it was never going to happen...) to return home and wants to be buried in the family plot in Malahide.

I know that the Medical Care team in the hospital have completed their assessment and are just waiting for the Financial information for the Fair Deal paperwork and as soon as that is through its going to the forum.

To be honest the hospital have been useless, they never call back to speak to me so I have given up trying to contact them. The on duty nurse can't discuss his situation but just tells me what he's done that day or eaten etc.

He also has arthritis so can hardly walk and his hands are so misshapen he can't hold anything small like a pen easily so I assume that this has contributed to them feeling he needs to be in a care home.

I'm going over in a weeks time to clear his flat, look at care homes if possible and see him. I'm not sure if I'll even be allowed to take him out of the hospital but will be getting him to sign the third party mandate. Oh and I will need to speak to the Garda about the investigation of his savings .....

It was all rather sudden and I think I've got awhole bunch of white hairs that weren't there before...

 

[a155sjd]

Sorry - I've only just seen this thread!
Somewhere in the bowels of TP, I have posted an "Info for people in Ireland" link which gives links to all sorts of information for people over here. I'll see if I can find it again.

Here it is in the "helpful websites" section:

Hope there's something there that's useful.

Great will have a look through this