Grand care home fees

[Lencoates]

Hi there. new poster and already asking questions

My gran passed away in April.I am her FPR and executor. she had mental illness and died at 94 from her dementia but has been subject to court of protection since 1994 when she was admitted to 24 care. at the time I was too young to apply to be deputy and as my mam lacked capacity she was advised to allow cop to act in my grans best interests which has been helpful to a point, however approx 5 years ago, a former social worker contacted me and told me that she had been wrongly paying for care between 1994 and 2001 when she should have been funded but the cost of this would be calculated and reimbursed at the time when she no longer required care I.e the time of death. I was never given the option to apply for deputy (which i would have done if suggested) and so was lead to believe this would have been either dealt with at the time of death or done automatically. in April she died with a DOLs in place which was horrendous as it was also a bank holiday so she was pretty much put in a fridge for almost a week despite me paying for her funeral care in advance and since then Court of protection have been almost impossible to contact other than one occasion which i have now been invoiced for. My question is, given that there was a time limit on care home fee claims before 2012 which I had no reason to be aware of, should her deputy not have attempted to contact me or claim this for my gran herself within her duties? I have no idea what's been allowed to go on but think that is a very large sum of money to be ignoring that she has actually had taken directly from her assets without me being aware of or giving me a chance to query.
I'd appreciate any help whether support or legal knowledge as I have 2 of her great grandchildren who I am sure would have appreciated the money she has spent if it had been made clearer at the time.

 

[Lencoates]

Apologies but just to add I am her next of kin, have grant of probate etc but this is something I had been lead to believe would be sorted almost automatically and am only finding out now that I am likely to have problems making a claim to recover these fees.

 

[jaymor]

Hi and welcome to Talking Point.

I am sorry to read of the awful problem you have.

I think you really need legal advice and the terms and conditions of the forum do not allow legal advice to be given here.

It does seem really unusual and complex and needs someone with professional know how to help you.

Hopefully you will get it resolved, it must be very worrying.

 

[Karjo]

Do you know on what grounds she was wrongly charged, had she been sectioned?

 

[Lencoates]

Thanks Jay.

to be honest it,s more of a vent or support I'm looking for than legal answers. I'm pretty vigilant in getting the right thing done although I feel like I've been dropped in to something that feels so removed from being human. in one sense I'm grieving but haven't been able to grieve properly as I'm in the thick of it. ( just to add for sympathy I had just started working at her home so did her end of life care up till the moment she died) but the whole name on a sheet of paper does nothing for me when Im talking about my own gran, nor does the whole shroud that comes with DOLs when you die on palliative care on a thursday night before good friday bank holiday weekend then have to deal with the real aftermath as a person.

 

[Lencoates]

Do you know on what grounds she was wrongly charged, had she been sectioned?

Several times sectioned through her life god bless her but she was never wrongly charged with anything. She had a deprivation of liberty order in place for adult safeguarding and her dementia had preceded her mental illness in the 2 years before she passed away. Still meant that there had to be a coroner involved despite her being on palliative care when she finally let herself go and unfortunately there are some problems arising surrounding dignity because or this order.

 

[Chemmy]

Is this to do with claiming Continuing Health Care fees retrospectively?

Is the problem that the deadline for making a claim has now passed and the COP never bothered to pursue the claim as you feel they should have done when they were in control of the finances? I can see how they might have let it slip past them - after all, they had no personal stake in any eventual inheritance, but that's no excuse.

 

[Lencoates]

Is this to do with claiming Continuing Health Care fees retrospectively?

Is the problem that the deadline for making a claim has now passed and the COP never bothered to pursue the claim as you feel they should have done when they were in control of the finances? I can see how they might have let it slip past them - after all, they had no personal stake in any eventual inheritance, but that's no excuse.

Kind of, more to do with the fact I was too young to be a deputy myself at the immediate time I was infirmed despite being in close contact with Her, them and her care home on a daily basis for the last 20 years plus my mam not being able to ( hence where i am now) when I was informed and despite them making us aware that the deputy and cop had been informed they did nothing and they have to constantly rea pply and show that they are acting in the individuals best interests. if they can't do this perhaps they should have passed over the responsibility to me sooner as I can manage all this as it is very close to my heart and I would have been proud to have done it before it became a loss to her she wasn't even aware of.

 

[Lencoates]

Sorry my grammar is terrible using this tablet.

 

[Lencoates]

the point is for half of the time she received care they have been deputies and for half of that time she paid care fees when she shouldn't have. they informed us shed been wrongly paying them as she qualified for free funding during these timesThat's a pretty big thing to have let slip under the radar especia!ly when they are appointed to act in her best interests. these fees go back to 1994-2001 so the money could have been used to benefit her years ago

 

[Chemmy]

I wonder if it's worth trying Citizens Advice in the first instance. They've produced this leaflet about contacting an ombudsman

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/l...omplaints/how-to-use-an-ombudsman-in-england/

The ombudsman’s job is to investigate cases of maladministration. This means the way in which an organisation has dealt with a situation or reached a decision. Examples of maladministration include:

an organisation not following its own policies or procedures
rudeness
delay in taking action or failing to take action
treating someone unfairly compared to others
giving wrong or misleading information.
The ombudsman will only look into a case where an individual (or in some cases group of individuals) has suffered personal injustice, hardship or financial loss because of the action or lack of action of a particular organisation.

In most cases, an ombudsman cannot look into a decision made by an organisation, just because you disagree with it.

At least they might be able to advise whether it'd be worth your while involving a lawyer.

 

[Karjo]

if you Gran was sectioned under section 3 of the mental health act then all her care home fees after that (on the assumption she then went into care under section 117 aftercare) should have been without charge to her. they would be paid by the local authority. i know some councils did charge but I believe the ombudsman said this was wrong and that they should actively seek out people who had been incorrectly charged care home fees. it may be your Gran falls under this catagory and then later was funded under CHC.
So if you can find out for definate what sort of section she was on (section 2 does not count unfortunately) and it was a section 3 then aftercare cannot be charged for and you should approach her local authority as to what they propose in the way of refunds. it is probably worth seeking legal advice from a lawyer who deals with these issues. Also MIND are very good with this sort of thing. If you want I will try to find the link to the ombudsman decision but it may take a while, so I won't try unless you ask. MIND is probably your best bet and I would ignore the fact thatmyou were unable to deal with it at the time as it's probably a bit of a red herring.

 

[Karjo]

This is the link if it works

http://www.lgo.org.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAxADIAMwB8AHwAVAByAHUAZQB8AHwAMAB8AA2

 

[Karjo]

having just read quickly through the link it may be correct that there is a limitation as to how far you can go back. It is probably still worth pursuing though to make sure. Best of luck.