My father is aggressive

[Bod]

Good advice. Many thanks. That is so true. He understands what he wants and that is no carers but cannot understand the consequences of that decision.
Unfortunately too he has a lock with a key code that all the professionals know.
My biggest anxiety is when I see him again I'm convinced he will go for me. He is a very aggressive man

Tony If you fear him, do not go anywhere near him.
Step right back, let the professionals deal with him entirely.
If he does get out of control, call the police, let them deal with him, just get an incident number, it helps back up your case.

As I said before, you do not have to take any responsibility for him.
He won't be aggressive with professional carers very often, before he is dealt with.
Do not worry, if you step right back, the situation will sort it's self out, one way or another.

Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

Tony If you fear him, do not go anywhere near him.
Step right back, let the professionals deal with him entirely.
If he does get out of control, call the police, let them deal with him, just get an incident number, it helps back up your case.

As I said before, you do not have to take any responsibility for him.
He won't be aggressive with professional carers very often, before he is dealt with.
Do not worry, if you step right back, the situation will sort it's self out, one way or another.

Bod

Once again Bod. Cannot thank you enough for your help and support. Yes I do fear him. He has a history of violence and even at 83 last year he put my sisters husband in hospital using his crutch. Unfortunately no charges were pressed
Your also correct in that his public persona is very different and he is both charming affable and compliant with professionals. All makes me out to appear a liar. I am writing everything down and keeping a daily diary and will call police if necessary
I will look to seek legal advice as well
Many thanks Bod for your reassurances it does help me feel better
Anyone know who or how best to go about getting legal advice
Tony

 

[Moonflower]

I'm not an expert, but I think you need to step back. By that I mean write a brief but clear note stating that because of your father's aggression you cannot provide care for him or take responsibility for his safety. He either stays in residential care or a full care package needs to be in place with appropriate monitoring to ensure his safety. Give/post/email a copy to everyone involved in the decision making - and then don't engage, don't offer help, and if necessary don't answer the phone. Easy for me to write, hard to do I know, but if they do decide to send him home they will put a lot of pressure on you to provide care.

 

[chrisdee]

Really, I think the professionals need to take responsibility, not you. A history of violence seems to me that he may need sectioning. A scary word but SS and mental health usually act together on this. At least he would then get assessment and help. It sounds that others, neighbours? could be in danger. Please have courage and step away from this onerous responsibility.

 

[Bod]

Once again Bod. Cannot thank you enough for your help and support. Yes I do fear him. He has a history of violence and even at 83 last year he put my sisters husband in hospital using his crutch. Unfortunately no charges were pressed
Your also correct in that his public persona is very different and he is both charming affable and compliant with professionals. All makes me out to appear a liar. I am writing everything down and keeping a daily diary and will call police if necessary
I will look to seek legal advice as well
Many thanks Bod for your reassurances it does help me feel better
Anyone know who or how best to go about getting legal advice
Tony

The incident with your brother in law, were the police involved?
If so there will be an incident (crime) number, get it. It backs up your fears.
Legal advice, find some one who understands the mental health regulations, and local authority obligations. Maybe get in touch with your local Alzheimer's Society branch, CAB might be of use.

Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

The incident with your brother in law, were the police involved?
If so there will be an incident (crime) number, get it. It backs up your fears.
Legal advice, find some one who understands the mental health regulations, and local authority obligations. Maybe get in touch with your local Alzheimer's Society branch, CAB might be of use.

Bod

Hi Bod
Once again thanks for your help
I'll ask my sister as even if charges were not pressed they should still have an incident number I expect
I will also contact local Alzheimer's for legal advice.

 

[Bod]

The local Alzheimer's society won't be able to give legal advice, but should be able to point you in the right direction.

Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

The local Alzheimer's society won't be able to give legal advice, but should be able to point you in the right direction.

Bod

Hi Bod and all

Desperate for support and advice right now
Further developments today include a threat to my sister. Dad is convinced we are trying to get him into care I think but I'm wary of making assumptions
He probably feels threatened. Today he has said to my sister that myself and her are 2 bxxxxxxxx. He is going to come and get us and cause some grief

My fear is he would discharge himself but the hospital have now said he will be stoppe by the police
All of this because we want more help for him and he refuses it
He has said to my sister I can look after my xxxxxx self
Now Mcmillan nurse wants to see me and they are thinking of arranging a meeting in the hospital with dad and a third party professional present.
Do you feel this is an acceptable and tenable position for me to be in ?
They say as things have now broken down completely they need to look at ways to resolve this
Still had no direct contact from social services even though he is in palliative care unit and Mcmillan nurse has said they are involved

 

[Beate]

I have said it before and I will say it again: get either Alzheimer's Society, Age UK or the Carers Centre involved. They can advise you and can also come to meetings with you. It will give you a lot more confidence to deal with all these frightening developments. Just remember that no one can force you to care for another person, especially if they are violent. Your dad cannot come home. He needs sectioning and then a care home. The authorities involved have to pull their finger out to come to a satisfactory solution. If he is a threat or danger to himself or others, they cannot hide behind probable capacity. I say probable as its not even proven he has that capacity anymore. Ask them who determined capacity and on what grounds? Someone saying they can look after themselves doesn't mean anything. They should prove it first. And if they can't, a best interest decision has to be made.

Chin up, you can do this.

 

[tonynortheast]

I have said it before and I will say it again: get either Alzheimer's Society, Age UK or the Carers Centre involved. They can advise you and can also come to meetings with you. It will give you a lot more confidence to deal with all these frightening developments. Just remember that no one can force you to care for another person, especially if they are violent. Your dad cannot come home. He needs sectioning and then a care home. The authorities involved have to pull their finger out to come to a satisfactory solution. If he is a threat or danger to himself or others, they cannot hide behind probable capacity. I say probable as its not even proven he has that capacity anymore. Ask them who determined capacity and on what grounds? Someone saying they can look after themselves doesn't mean anything. They should prove it first. And if they can't, a best interest decision has to be made.

Chin up, you can do this.

Think without you guys and the Mcmillan nurse I would have cracked up by now
Cannot thank all of you enough for your advice and support through one of the most difficult times of my life
Latest from McMillan is they have put a restriction of Liberty order on him so he is unable to leave hospital. They have also said at the minute he is deemed as not having mental capacity.
McMillan coming to see me Thursday am to provide support through this

 

[nellbelles]

I'm pleased that people are listening to you and taking notice.

I think because your father is under a palliative care team things are a little different to the norm here on TP, but it seems the Macmillan nurse has stepped up to the mark.

I hope now the immediate pressure is off you and the family can relax a little.

 

[tonynortheast]

I'm pleased that people are listening to you and taking notice.

I think because your father is under a palliative care team things are a little different to the norm here on TP, but it seems the Macmillan nurse has stepped up to the mark.

I hope now the immediate pressure is off you and the family can relax a little.

Hi Helen
Once again your supportive words mean so much and my grateful thanks to you and others on this forum who are supporting me through this
I agree the McMillan nurse has been wonderful in supporting me through this. I realise though that this is far from over and would appreciate any further advice you feel would be helpful
They are trying to persuade me to meet my dad in the next week or two supervised of course by a team of professionals in the unit
Do you think this is an untenable situation as my fear is apart from it being very upsetting, I do love my dad after all, it could also deteriorate into a shouting match. My dad is remember making threats and is in his own words looking to cause grief.
He has now made numerous calls to myself left on voicemail that are threats and today threatened my sister witnessed by the staff nurse on the PCU

 

[canary]

They are trying to persuade me to meet my dad in the next week or two supervised of course by a team of professionals in the unit

Who are "they" and what do they hope to achieve by getting you to meet?
I dont see that they can make you do anything and from a dementia viewpoint I would have thought it would be better to not see him for a few weeks to allow him to settle anyway.

 

[tonynortheast]

Who are "they" and what do they hope to achieve by getting you to meet?
I dont see that they can make you do anything and from a dementia viewpoint I would have thought it would be better to not see him for a few weeks to allow him to settle anyway.

As you rightly say who wants me to meet and for what purpose. If it has the huge potential for just upset then better leave it a week or 2. He is at the moment just looking to, in his own words, cause grief.
I want to assist the authorities but not if it is seen by myself as a threatening and intimidating situation
If any other people have any other views would be appreciated

 

[Bod]

There is a piece of advice in business that says, always go to a difficult meeting, you can walk out at any time. If the meeting comes to you, your stuck.

If this meeting with your father is with the professionals who are looking after him, it may help them to see how he reacts to you.
If he gets aggressive, either physically or verbally, you can leave, there and then.
Make it clear before the meeting that the professionals are responsible for your safety.

It does sound as if your fathers character has been noted and recorded, and appropriate limits set.
He will be far better off in care, than ever you can provide. (How you get him to see that is........)

Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

There is a piece of advice in business that says, always go to a difficult meeting, you can walk out at any time. If the meeting comes to you, your stuck.

If this meeting with your father is with the professionals who are looking after him, it may help them to see how he reacts to you.
If he gets aggressive, either physically or verbally, you can leave, there and then.
Make it clear before the meeting that the professionals are responsible for your safety.

It does sound as if your fathers character has been noted and recorded, and appropriate limits set.
He will be far better off in care, than ever you can provide. (How you get him to see that is........)

Bod

Hi Bod
I really value your insight and opinion. Your advice is clear and concise. It gives me reassurance and hope
I will listen to their suggestions as you say as upsetting as this may be it will give them an opportunity to see how he reacts.

Many thanks Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

Hi Bod
I really value your insight and opinion. Your advice is clear and concise. It gives me reassurance and hope
I will listen to their suggestions as you say as upsetting as this may be it will give them an opportunity to see how he reacts.

Many thanks Bod

Please guys any further advice. As I live so close to my dad and have supported him for 16 months I am sure social services will look for continuing input of a sort from me. I'm at the end of my tether on this. I cannot and will not cope anymore. As hard as that is to say I feel I have no alternative. I'm scared of them putting back in the home with a care package but even a full care package doesn't cover all his needs does it. What about his sundowners through the night, shopping, laundry and so on and so on

 

[Bod]

It's not very helpful in your case, but suffers have been sent home with a full care package in place, to see how they cope.
The inevitable failure then pushes the authorities into doing what needed doing in the first place.
In your case with your father already in palliative care, he is already judged to have needs that cannot be meet at home.
With you not being able or willing to take any responsibility, combined with his attitude to you and other family members, I would like to think, it is a case of finding what type of care is best for him.
Should this meeting go ahead, and your father kicks off big time, at you, then that could be the very best thing, it shows him in his true light.

Good luck
Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

It's not very helpful in your case, but suffers have been sent home with a full care package in place, to see how they cope.
The inevitable failure then pushes the authorities into doing what needed doing in the first place.
In your case with your father already in palliative care, he is already judged to have needs that cannot be meet at home.
With you not being able or willing to take any responsibility, combined with his attitude to you and other family members, I would like to think, it is a case of finding what type of care is best for him.
Should this meeting go ahead, and your father kicks off big time, at you, then that could be the very best thing, it shows him in his true light.


Good luck
Bod

Hi Bod. Agree. In fact it was his swearing and threats on the phone to my sister that I think prompted the hospital to put a deprivation of liberty order on him. He even told the nurse to xxxx off.
He further threatened to get us 2
As you rightly say my fear is they send him home with a full care package that can never really be so. Then inevitable failure leads to another crisis and heartache

This is so hard Bod

 

[Katrine]

One of the issues that needs to be voiced loud and clear at the meeting is the health and safety of domiciliary carers and visiting nurses. If your father goes home with a care package everyone who enters his home will be at KNOWN risk of verbal and physical violence. I would like to think that SS managers would take this into account.

Just because he wants everyone to **** off and leave him alone doesn't mean he can be allowed to have his way. At home anybody could be at risk from his aggression, including the postman and the neighbours.

We are all rooting for you. Practice your mantra like a stuck record. Once you've said it out loud to yourself 20 times you will be able to repeat it to the people who need to hear it. "I cannot, and will not, take responsibility for my father's care at home. I am done with it."