Self funding? Local authority funded? I don't understand!

[Nanawendy6]

Property trusts

I thought my husbands half of our house would go towards his care. My solicitor says his half could be transferred to me or should be put in trust for his sons so it would not be taken into consideration. Stepson wants husbands will changed. Guess he wants inheritance asap. If house is put in trust now before he needs care but after dementia diagnosis how is this legal? Let alone moral.

 

[WILLIAMR]

I thought my husbands half of our house would go towards his care. My solicitor says his half could be transferred to me or should be put in trust for his sons so it would not be taken into consideration. Stepson wants husbands will changed. Guess he wants inheritance asap. If house is put in trust now before he needs care but after dementia diagnosis how is this legal? Let alone moral.

I do know of a case where a wife jointly owned a house with her husband and willed her half of the house to the offspring when the husband was in care.
Sadly she pre deceased the husband.
This made the offspring an owner of the house on her death and the LA battled to get the house but got nowhere in the end.
If your husband leaves his half to the stepson he can not sell the house when you are alive but you could not sell the house.
There could be problems if he was made bankcrupt or if he divorces.

William


William

 

[jeany123]

I agree Jeany

I actually feel sorry for people who appear to have such sad views. They may be rich in material terms but very poor in other areas.

Such a shame

Yes and it doesn't look as though they will change does it.

 

[WILLIAMR]

Yes and it doesn't look as though they will change does it.

The other problem I have just thought of is if say a house is valued at £400,000 at the time the parent goes in to care and the LA has to pay £200,000 it may put a charge on it for £200,000.
If the market crashes and the house is sold for £350,000 would the LA take £200,000 leaving the offspring with £150,000 thus taking £25,000 belonging to the offspring.

William

 

[LYN T]

I thought my husbands half of our house would go towards his care. My solicitor says his half could be transferred to me or should be put in trust for his sons so it would not be taken into consideration. Stepson wants husbands will changed. Guess he wants inheritance asap. If house is put in trust now before he needs care but after dementia diagnosis how is this legal? Let alone moral.

Welcome to TP Nanawendy

I know nothing about changing wills or Trusts (potential or otherwise) but I do know that if one half of a married couple enters care the marital home IS disregarded if the spouse remains living in the home.

I'm sorry I can't help you with inheritance/wills etc.

Take care

Lyn T

 

[WILLIAMR]

Not all of us, thankfully. I want social care to be free at the point of need just like health care but I don't see how that can happen when people have their eye on an inheritance.

The system has been milked dry, it's time it stopped.

People who spend their lives working pay their taxes...if you've had children you haven't even paid for their education never mind their healthcare...never mind your pension, never mind your own healthcare.

It's because we all contribute, en masse... that's how the man or woman who lives on their own with dementia and a desperate need for help and support, sitting in their own urine and faeces until the next visit, no family, no house, no money gets the help they need...that's how we stop such a travesty from happening in Britain 2014.

Not to mention the people who are lucky enough to share their homes with someone who cares for them, husband, wife, daughter, son...mother.

More money towards better care will stop their lives from being devastated by caring for someone with an illness or disability.

You can't have your cake and eat it. Simple Physics.

I have 2 daughters who are now paying tax and NI so that will be paying for their education which they had.
I have paid NI for my own pension.
I have life time private health cover from my ex employers and my daughters were always private patients as children when they had to stay in hospital overnight.
I will never be able to claim anything but my state pension as I paid in to an occupational pension scheme.
My daughters have private health insurance for themselves husbands and their children.
In fact all of my state pension will just about cover my tax bill.
Oddly our family dentist is NHS, we have an NHS GP and we have used A & E but most people do not tend to go private at the A & E stage.
I did have some NHS hospital treatment just before Christmas a few years ago.
I was going to go in in the new year but the hospital suddenly had a cancellation and phoned me to say could I get in so the slot was not wasted.
Oddly I saw the doctor who was going to treat me privately as I went in and he said he would have done the same. He said the other surgeon was equally as good.

William

 

[LYN T]

The other problem I have just thought of is if say a house is valued at £400,000 at the time the parent goes in to care and the LA has to pay £200,000 it may put a charge on it for £200,000.
If the market crashes and the house is sold for £350,000 would the LA take £200,000 leaving the offspring with £150,000 thus taking £25,000 belonging to the offspring.

William

I expect, on the death of a parent, the offspring would be more distraught over a loved one passing than the £25,000 'shortfall'.

 

[WILLIAMR]

I expect, on the death of a parent, the offspring would be more distraught over a loved one passing than the £25,000 'shortfall'.

I must say towards the end of his life my father said that the bungalow and his money was mine and I was to take the bungalow in accordance with the terms of the will and only let my wife / children and myself benefit from it after my step mother died.
I collected the green form etc from the hospital first thing in the morning the day after his death and got the death certificate in the middle of the day.
I then visited the funeral director in the afternoon. He had a funeral plan but it did not cover everything so I paid the extras from my own funds.
The next morning I went to his banks / building societies with the intention of stopping his accounts and I was most surprised when they gave me his money against production of my passport, indemnity and death certificate.
Somebody did say I should have left it longer before taking the money but getting the money straight away saved going back in to the city again and saved me having to take money out of my account to settle the credit card bill.
I started to prepare the application for probate before the funeral.
Dad worked on these lines when Mum died.

William

 

[LYN T]

William, I admire your organising skills.

What on earth could that person have meant when he/she said you should have left it longer before taking the money.?

 

[WILLIAMR]

William, I admire your organising skills.

What on earth could that person have meant when he/she said you should have left it longer before taking the money.?

Lyn

I don't know the answer to your question re me being too quick to take the money.
Leaving it would not have bought dad back.
The same person thought it was inappropriate we had his dog at his funeral. It was obvious he knew something was wrong. He sat silent and just gave a good bye woof to Dad at the end of the service.
The minister saw nothing wrong with the deceased's pets being at the funeral.
In respect of the funeral arrangements I think I was just lucky everybody had a slot.
It took about 5 days to just get the death certificate for my step mother.
Dad had created a spread sheet of all his money.
The figures just had to be updated.
When Mum died he took me with him so I mainly knew what to do.

William

 

[WILLIAMR]

Fairness

In summery home ownership / family circumstances are not the same in every case so it is difficult to write rules for care home charges to be fair under every set of circumstances for example to the daughter who cared for her parent for 9 years and I think we had little responsibility for my step mother as she was only married to my father for 3 years.



William

 

[Early riser]

I'm sorry William but I find your constant mentioning of money,inheritance and 6 bedroomed homes quite obscene when so many of us have willingly given up so much for our loved ones.

My husband has end stage vascular dementia and has been in a nursing home for over 2 years, we are self funding, our savings have almost gone, but more importantly our dreams and hopes for the future have gone.

This is a cruel and sad life for both of us, and all you bang on about is how to safe guard "your" wealth.

All the money in the world will not bring my beloved husband back
All the money in the world will not make me happy again.

 

[LYN T]

All the money in the world will not bring my beloved husband back
All the money in the world will not make me happy again.

Early riser, what you have written is exactly how I feel. I would give everything I own to have my Husband back home with me and well.

I do understand how you feel.

Take care

Lyn T XX

 

[WILLIAMR]

Early riser, what you have written is exactly how I feel. I would give everything I own to have my Husband back home with me and well.

I do understand how you feel.

Take care

Lyn T XX

What I mainly object to is social services tend to say to carers ''thanks for caring for your parent and living with your parent and spending your money on them' saving the tax payers money and for spending a substantial amount of your money on the house.
Now sell the house immediately and move to a smaller property at a time when you are wanting to visit your parent.
As I have said no regard was given to the fact the patient might not own the property in some cases and in some cases offspring have been asked to downsize their own property which was not even inherited from their parents.

William

 

[Pickles53]

In summery home ownership / family circumstances are not the same in every case so it is difficult to write rules for care home charges to be fair under every set of circumstances for example to the daughter who cared for her parent for 9 years and I think we had little responsibility for my step mother as she was only married to my father for 3 years.



William

I don't underestimate the difficulty of writing new legislation, it's always a complex process, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

 

[LYN T]

I don't underestimate the difficulty of writing new legislation, it's always a complex process, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

I can only agree with you Pickles; my own personal view is that an off springs inheritance should be just that-inheritance, and should only be considered on the death of both parents. The parents money should be used for their own comfort. If that became law then grown up children would think twice about selling their own properties. If a child needs to be an at home carer then their own house could be rented if they decide to live with the parent. That way if the parent needs residential care the carer would have their own house to return to and the parents house sold.

Something must be done to make the system fairer.

 

[WILLIAMR]

I can only agree with you Pickles; my own personal view is that an off springs inheritance should be just that-inheritance, and should only be considered on the death of both parents. The parents money should be used for their own comfort. If that became law then grown up children would think twice about selling their own properties. If a child needs to be an at home carer then their own house could be rented if they decide to live with the parent. That way if the parent needs residential care the carer would have their own house to return to and the parents house sold.

Something must be done to make the system fairer.

Hi Lyn

The problem is what would happen to grown up children who have sold their houses relying on the present rules?.
If say the son / daughter is now in their late 50's and their parent is in their early 80's the parent may not need care for 15 years.
Regard would have to be given to this.
Also I dont think much could be done if they already own half of the parents house.
The son or daughter could have already spent money on the parents house from the sale of their own property. In one case I know of this amounted to £80k plus.
Also I think it was reasonable for my mother to will her part of the estate to me as she wanted to ensure I would get it and not give Dad the power to will it to somebody else.

William

 

[LYN T]

William

The people who have taken the route you have outlined have obviously not broken the letter of the law as it stands at this time. Obviously, I think there is a moral issue but not a legal one.

My opinion was in response to Pickles post which mentioned changing the present legislation.

 

[WILLIAMR]

I can only agree with you Pickles; my own personal view is that an off springs inheritance should be just that-inheritance, and should only be considered on the death of both parents. The parents money should be used for their own comfort. If that became law then grown up children would think twice about selling their own properties. If a child needs to be an at home carer then their own house could be rented if they decide to live with the parent. That way if the parent needs residential care the carer would have their own house to return to and the parents house sold.

Something must be done to make the system fairer.

Another point I have just thought of is only a minority of the elderly finish their life in care and it is often only for a short time.
The offspring who I have helped have been mainly widowed who have been looking after their parent for years.
It may be more economical to let the offspring have the parental home under these circumstances in view of the amount of money they have saved the taxpayer.
There will be the odd one who looks after his / her parent for say a year and then the parent then goes in to care for say 10 years but this sort of case would not be normal.

William

 

[Early riser]

William why did you ignore my post but respond to everyone else?