Attendance allowance...declined!

[Nebiroth]

FYI, elligibility for AA is based on two criteria: supervision and help with bodily functions

Cooking for someone would not fall under either of these crtiera - although helping them with eating would be as a 'bodily function' (as would getting dressed, in and out of bed, the toilet, etc). However, if someone had to be watched because they would attempt to cook for themselves but do so dangerously, eg leaving gas on or not lighting it, burning themselves, etc, this would count - but under supervision.

Help with medication definitely falls under supervision and would count.

Also, unlike Disability Living Allowance, AA has no mobility component. Any references to mobility outside of the home would be disregarded. Mobility inside the home is also ignored, but it might count under supervision if the person is liable to stumble or fall.

[smithy26]

Many, many thanks for all your replies. We will most definately be appealing. The forms were downloaded from the internet, DWP....& yes, my f-i-law filled them in, & did not lay it on thickly enough!..he si so potective of her, & no doubt felt disloyal. We just generally believed that the fact he HAS to deal with all her medication that would be enough! We will however correct this & tell them ALL the problems that he has to deal with on a daily basis. I will NOT give in. It was the nurse who assesses her that told us to claim! The doctor was not contacted., but they are fully aware of teh situation. Mum in law also has other tablets regarding arthritis etc & the GP only last week asked father in law to make sure HE was the one giving out the medication as she was given some strong painkillers etc. We will carry on the fight Thank you all, you have given us HOPE!! xx

[Witzend]

Slightly off subject but are you really permitted to lock someone in - although it could be argued that one does normally lock the door at night. I know they lock the doors in these care homes day and night but are they allowed to hold people against their will?

'Will' is one thing, 'capacity' is another.

You wouldn't shrug your shoulders and allow a 3 year old to run around alone in a busy street/play with matches/with the gas cooker etc. just because it wanted to.

Past a certain stage a dementia sufferer is much the same - what they want to do may well not be safe for themselves and others, so yes, care homes can and do keep people in against their will. Just the other week I witnessed a poor lady desperately trying to escape from my mother's CH - and being forcibly restrained - but this is the only case I've seen in nearly 5 years.

The CH is not far from a very busy main road - if she had got out and been run over, or caused an accident and injury to other people I dare say the CH would have been accused of negligence. Should add that it's a specialist dementia CH so by its very nature residents are those who lack capacity to look after themselves or make decisions concerning their own welfare.

[melon]

I don't disagree with the reasoning behind it Witzend just struggling with the ins and outs of the Mental Capacity Act.

[Delphie]

Many, many thanks for all your replies. We will most definately be appealing. The forms were downloaded from the internet, DWP....& yes, my f-i-law filled them in, & did not lay it on thickly enough!..he si so potective of her, & no doubt felt disloyal. We just generally believed that the fact he HAS to deal with all her medication that would be enough! We will however correct this & tell them ALL the problems that he has to deal with on a daily basis. I will NOT give in. It was the nurse who assesses her that told us to claim! The doctor was not contacted., but they are fully aware of teh situation. Mum in law also has other tablets regarding arthritis etc & the GP only last week asked father in law to make sure HE was the one giving out the medication as she was given some strong painkillers etc. We will carry on the fight Thank you all, you have given us HOPE!! xx

Do consider getting some help with the forms, just to be on the safe side. I'm normally quite happy to tackle anything like that (did the Deputyship application myself) but I read and heard that the AA application can be quite tricky. A lovely lady from Age UK did the forms with me and, indeed, the way she described my mum's problems was different to how I would've put it.

Good luck.

[Grannie G]

When filling in a form for Attendance Allowance have the words `at risk` tattooed on your forehead at all times.

Is this person is`at risk` if they ;

Are left alone in the house.
Try to cook.
Turn on heating.
Tend to wander outside.
Wander in the middle of the night indoors.
Leave outside doors open.
May let anyone in.
Cannot summon help for themselves.
Have lost their sense of smell. [burn toast etc. ]
Will go out in winter inappropriately dressed.
Are unable to find rooms in their own home.
Are at risk of falling.

This is off the top of my head but I hope it helps.

[Donbon79]

FYI, elligibility for AA is based on two criteria: supervision and help with bodily functions

Cooking for someone would not fall under either of these crtiera - although helping them with eating would be as a 'bodily function' (as would getting dressed, in and out of bed, the toilet, etc). However, if someone had to be watched because they would attempt to cook for themselves but do so dangerously, eg leaving gas on or not lighting it, burning themselves, etc, this would count - but under supervision.

Help with medication definitely falls under supervision and would count.

Also, unlike Disability Living Allowance, AA has no mobility component. Any references to mobility outside of the home would be disregarded. Mobility inside the home is also ignored, but it might count under supervision if the person is liable to stumble or fall.

Hi all.

I'm a Decision Maker for DLA/AA (Please don't hate me!) and my Mum has vascular dementia. I've been reading this thread and thinking I may be able to offer some advice.

Nebiroth is correct that there are 2 elements considered for AA, attention and daytime supervision/night time watching over and there is no element of mobility, so anything to do with being outdoors/mobility cannot be taken into account.

AA does not take into accoung preparation or cooking of a main meal in any way(although DLA does) but does take into account any help required with bodily functions and any supervision that a person may require.

In order to be awarded the lowest rate of AA (this could be either for daytime only or night time only) the person must need frequent attention throughout the day in connection with their bodily functions, i.e. help getting in/out of bed, getting up/down stairs, getting in/out of a chair, moving around indoors, toileting, washing/dressing, taking medication, eating, communicating, preventing self neglect and taking part in social activities.

At night they must need either prolonged (more than 20 mins) or repeated (more than once) attention after the household has closed down for the night (when the last household member has gone to bed, not when the actual person has gone to bed) i.e. help with toileting (and getting in/out of bed), turning in bed, sleeping comfortably, taking medication or help with treatment.

To get the higher rate for attention, the person needs to need help both day and night as discussed above.

To be awarded for supervision, during the day, the customer must be at substantial risk of danger to either themselves or others (including the risk of falls) and as such can only be left alone for short periods of time (up to an hour) and for night time watching over the same rules apply as to night time attention, prolonged or repeated.

Those people who are awarded AA or even DLA for dementia solely would usually be awarded for supervision/watching over but there may be other health conditions that create needs too e.g. osteoarthritis and so a mixed attention/supervision award could be possible.

AA & DLA are not awarded because a person has a particular disease/disability, they are awarded becuase of the needs that arise from the conditions.

If claim forms are not clear, then a good DM should always ring up the customer/representative and ask for further information. We do not have to get any further medical evidence to support the decision if we are happy with the information in the form or obtained by phone but the option is there if needed.

As mentioned by others, there are plenty of agencies that can help with the forms, Age UK, Citizen's Advice, Pension Service, Welfare Rights, to name but a few.

I hope this helps and is not too confusing!

[andrean]

Your mother in law and my mum sound like one and the same person! Mum has almost exactly these issues, plus getting up a lot at night for the loo and often waking dad because she can't find the bathroom. I applied for AA for Mum, filled in the forms myself, and she was awarded the higher rate.

Mum has never been seen by a doctor as dad doesn't believe in them (that is to say, he believes they exist but would never in a million years consult one or take mum to consult one), and the local Alzheimers Soc support person was amazed when I told her that mum had been awarded AA despite not having a diagnosis. She said she didn't know that was possible, which didn't fill me with confidence in her knowledge of other aspects of alzheimers care...

Appeal, lay it on as thick as you can. Your MIL definitely should get it.

[ggma]

Melon, to reply re locking doors, I think in your own home people can secure the doors as they would at any time, after all it is not wise for anyone to leave doors unsecured these days when people are opportunist and will enter uninvited.

As regards locking people in, my understanding is that no-one can be locked in against their will, unless they are legally detained, so with care homes there is a lot of grey area, I certainly have the number of the keypads on the home my mum is in, so I can leave when I want, and not be locked in if staff are busy.

I am sure someone will have the legal answer for us.

[tillyw]

My gran was refused Attendance Allowance earlier this year, with advice from people on here we appealed and found that we had been too conservative with explaining how bad she was. Although it took ,almost ten weeks, we finally heard on Tuesday that they have changed their mind and she is now able to receive it.Although they will only backdate it to the 30th april for some reason.
Also remember that if you receive attendance allowance you do not have to pay council tax. This means along with the allowance an extra £300.00 a month towards her care.

[Saffie]

I have to say that I told the exact truth with no embelishments at all when my husband was granted AA and living at home. He was awarded the lower rather than the higher rate because although he had diabebtes and was inclined to have night-time hypos from time to time and I did check on him during the night, it didn't usually warrant more than that. His dementia also wasn't that much of a problem at that time.

I had no help in completing the form and only knew that was available much later but it does seem all wrong that one should have to, if not exactly lie, then exaggerate to receive something which is surely their's by right - and certainly by necessesity.

[SailingWanderer]

The same thing happened to me and I had a welfare advisor come out and fill in the forms for me and the second time we got the higher rate for both my parents having got nothing the first time. It is just a case of knowing what they need to hear, the Ahlzeimer,s society will also fill in this form for you but I thinkg there is a time limit on applying again so dont delay xx

[andrean]

Also remember that if you receive attendance allowance you do not have to pay council tax. This means along with the allowance an extra £300.00 a month towards her care.

Re council tax: it's not quite that straightforward, as you need a doctor's certificate as well as receiving AA. Also, how it works is that the person is not counted when assessing the number of people in the home, so if they live alone, they wouldn't have to pay, but if they live with a spouse (or other adult) the spouse would get the single person discount (25%) and presumably if they lived with more than one adult, there'd be no CT reduction as there'd still be 2 (or more) people counted as living in the property.

[Donbon79]

My gran was refused Attendance Allowance earlier this year, with advice from people on here we appealed and found that we had been too conservative with explaining how bad she was. Although it took ,almost ten weeks, we finally heard on Tuesday that they have changed their mind and she is now able to receive it.Although they will only backdate it to the 30th april for some reason.
Also remember that if you receive attendance allowance you do not have to pay council tax. This means along with the allowance an extra £300.00 a month towards her care.

tillyw - They will have been awarded from 30/04/12 as this was the date you either first applied for AA or that was the end of the 6 month qualifying period (the person's needs would have begun at the start of the 6 months) that must be served with a first time award of AA. If a person is receiving lower rate AA then apply for higher rate AA, they will again have to have a 6 month qualifying period.

Hope this helps.

[Donbon79]

The same thing happened to me and I had a welfare advisor come out and fill in the forms for me and the second time we got the higher rate for both my parents having got nothing the first time. It is just a case of knowing what they need to hear, the Ahlzeimer,s society will also fill in this form for you but I thinkg there is a time limit on applying again so dont delay xx

Sailing Wanderer and any interested parties - There is a time limit on reapplying once you have a decision, and it's one calendar month after the date of the decision letter received. Doing this will maintain the date you originally applied, If you apply after this time, it may still be accepted but there has to be a good reason why it was late. If lateness is not accepted, it will still be looked at but you wouldn't be able to maintain the original date.

Hope this makes sense.