Coconut Oil

[TedHutchinson]

It's appalling that doctors are given so little nutritional training. My mum asked at her memory clinic what foods she should eat to help her dementia and the doctor just acted exasperated and said "look, we're giving you Aricept...." with the implication that my mum didn't need to bother her head with what she ate.

Common sense is all that's required to understand that Aricept works by prolonging the action of choline in the brain, it inhibits the action of the enzyme that breaks choline down, it is reducing the effects of choline deficiency.
How smart do you have to be to work out there may be a very simple way of preventing choline deficiency and ensuring the brain has a source of choline at breakfast dinner

Links removed by moderator.

Do you think dessicated coconut is good?

In moderation. I'm afraid I don't eat anything that contains wheat so cakes aren't part of my diet but a coconut cake would be better than many others. Obviously dessicated coconut doesn't have the fat content of coconut oil but it's pretty high in fat and MOST of the fat is medium chain triglycerides that those with AD will find easier to metabolise.

It's sold in packets as an ingredient to put in cakes. I wonder why it's impossible to buy coconut cake in the major UK supermarkets. I've been making coconut fairy cakes to take to my mum, but it would be nice if we could also get it ready made. Of course then they might contain other dodgy ingredients like that glucose-fructose syrup that is creeping into everything.

Really home made cakes are much better because you can use real eggs and you may be able to sneak in some wholewheat flour (reduce the glycaemic index a bit)

How about cheddar cheese? Other cheeses? Full fat presumably?

The older a cheese is the more Vitamin K it should contain so go for a vintage or mature cheddar from a traditional dairy that produces it's own cheese from raw milk. That way you will get a source of vitamin K and some good natural bacteria.

What sort of yoghurt is best?

Well I always make my own each week from raw milk that I collect from the dairy up the road. I use a full fat Greek Yoghurt for the starter culture but that's only when I need a new starter. Mostly it's just full cream raw milk, and some starter from the last batch. Most of the supermarkets do a reasonable 10% full fat greek yoghurt if you haven't yet got round to making your own. Once you do start making your own you wont bother with the bought stuff.

I presume that spread starting with Fl..... is VERY BAD?

Well it depends on what you aim is.
do you want to prolong active life or shorten it?
If we look at the Link removed by moderator we find that Higher total cholesterol was associated with a lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality in older adults.
So knowing that raising cholesterol lengthens life and lowering cholesterol shortens life you have to choose.

We are life-long vegetarians so I won't ask about meat/fish.

It's never too late to improve your B12 and choline levels with a change of diet.

Any other vegetarian tips?

It may be an idea to watch this video Link removed by moderator and learn from an ex vegan how the benefits of a healthyvegetarian diet don't have to be so far removed from the benefits of a healthy paleo diet.

I've been a studious low-fatter, but after reading The Great Cholesterol Con book, I started changing my mind and favouring more cheese based dishes, rather than the usual ones based on rice, pasta, bread, which it seems are not so helpful after all!!

I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to help you as I think pasta and bread are pretty much adding to the problems. It would be different if you had a source of organically grown heritage wheat which may be safer but modern dwarf wheats are more likely to provoke inflammation and are less nutritious.

Do you think coconut can help with vascular dementia, or is it specifically useful for Alzheimer's?

Thanks, Ted.

You will see Vascular dementia is included in this article.
Links removed by moderator.

[Owly]

Thanks for your answers, Ted. I'll be giving them some thought. I already bought some wholemeal, organic flour for my fairycake baking.

On this, and the other coconut oil thread, there is mention that people are taking 3-5 tablespoons of coconut oil per day. That sounds a lot. Does the brain really burn that much fat in a day? Or is there another reason why, say, a couple of teaspoons aren't enough?

I also picked up a computer virus from at least 1 of the links I've clicked on. I can't be sure, but it might have been the very last link in your post above. My computer acted weird from that time, and a McAfee scan just found a nasty little virus.

[tre]

Hello Ted,
glad to see you posting again- your posts are always thought provoking even if I am not completely in agreement with you. I have been giving my husband coconut oil for several weeks but he started Ebixa after the first two weeks so although there is a definite improvement it may be nothing to do with the coconut oil. However, I am so pleased with the progess I am not taking the coconut oil away in case it is contributing. He is not that keen on the taste but will take a couple of spoons on its own at breakfast. Using it for cooking I have found a bit more hit and miss. When I make a sweet and sour stir fry or a curry it is no problem and also it makes good sponge cakes and sponge puddings but I only substitute half the fat.
I would not expect my husband to eat anything I would not myself. I cannot see that it can do any harm so I will keep on with it for now
Tre

[TedHutchinson]

On this, and the other coconut oil thread, there is mention that people are taking 3-5 tablespoons of coconut oil per day. That sounds a lot.

When you look at the information on the Axona, MCT & Coconut Oil: Differences & Benefits link I provided above they were comparing the amount of coconut oil required to provide the 20 Grams of Medium chain triglycerides to match that in a single meal of Axona.(the medical food for Dementia sufferers) and so I've measured out 4 tablespoons of liquid coconut oil and it comes to about 40mg.

Does the brain really burn that much fat in a day? Or is there another reason why, say, a couple of teaspoons aren't enough?

I find no problem in using a couple of tablespoons with my breakfast. I add a bit more to my coffee and then add more when I fry onions prior to making a curry or stew. I think you'll find that when you increase the amount of coconut oil with your meals you actually eat less. It's the passage of fat through the digestive system that activates the secretion of the satiety hormones cholecystokinin (CCK), glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), peptide YY (PYY) that apply the brakes to appetite and let your brain know your full and can stop eating

I also picked up a computer virus from at least 1 of the links I've clicked on. I can't be sure, but it might have been the very last link in your post above. My computer acted weird from that time, and a McAfee scan just found a nasty little virus.

I'm on the Internet all day every day and I've not had any problems. I use the free Panda Cloud Antivirus I've also used AVG Free | Antivirus | Best Free Virus Protection and I didn't have any problems with that either so I can't see any reason why you should have problems.

[jenniferpa]

I think it's important to point out that any external link should be treated as if it has the potential to propagate a virus and you should only click on such links if you are confident you have adequate protection from such things.

[TedHutchinson]

I think it's important to point out that any external link should be treated as if it has the potential to propagate a virus and you should only click on such links if you are confident you have adequate protection from such things.

Indeed, but that's the same for all viral infections.

It is extremely important to get your immune protections system adequate for the normal challenges of daily life be it real life or the internet life.

If you've got a half decent antivirus system, and I've linked to 2 very good free antivirus systems, then you should be no more vulnerable than I am. I doubt many readers here will visit as many different sites during the day as I do. If you've got a decent antivirus should be warned before rather than after there is any trouble.

With health it's a case of acquiring a natural vitamin D3 and melatonin level. These 2 in combination regulate response to infection.
If you haven't a good immune system then you will be vulnerable to infection.
There really is no need to live in fear either on the internet or in real life.
We need to be confident in our ability to relate to others and deal with the normal consequences of daily interactions either online or in real life.
We cannot and should not plant fear in peoples minds where there is no need.

The more people stay indoors and away from others the less able they will be to deal with infections. The more people are terrified of visiting different sites online the less they will enjoy the experience. It's not as if improving your anti-virus system either online or in real life is expensive or difficult. Both the free anti virus programs I've linked to update themselves regularly.
Malware bytes is a free program that gets rid of junk/dodgy files.

[TedHutchinson]

I am not completely in agreement with you.

I'm not surprised I keep arguing with myself over many of these issues.

I have been giving my husband coconut oil for several weeks but he started Ebixa after the first two weeks so although there is a definite improvement it may be nothing to do with the coconut oil. However, I am so pleased with the progess I am not taking the coconut oil away in case it is contributing.

I can't comment on the Ebixa as I'm not sure I understand the logic of using that approach.

He is not that keen on the taste but will take a couple of spoons on its own at breakfast.

they do vary in taste, some are more coconutty than others. I use it to fry my bacon /tomatoes/mushrooms/egg breakfast so the flavours all get mixed and I make sure there's nothing left in the pan or on the plate.

Using it for cooking I have found a bit more hit and miss.

does take a bit of getting used to. It spits a bit if you let the frying pan get too hot.

When I make a sweet and sour stir fry or a curry it is no problem and also it makes good sponge cakes and sponge puddings but I only substitute half the fat.

Here are some more
COCONUT OIL RECIPE IDEAS It may be worth trying the coconut oil ice cream for a change.

I would not expect my husband to eat anything I would not myself. I cannot see that it can do any harm so I will keep on with it for now
Tre

I agree. I think it's as important for people to understand the way refined carbohydrates and the inflammation caused by hyperglycaemia underlies not just dementia and diabetes, but also heart disease obesity and cancer. We need particularly this time of year to understand how to Feast Without Fear — on Real Food and to do that it may be helpful to remind ourselves that carbohydrates are NOT an OBLIGATE NUTRIENT for humans.
That means carbohydrates are essential for human health.
If we could encourage everyone who needs to lose weight to repeat to themselves CARBOHYDRATES ARE NOT AN OBLIGATE NUTRIENT AND I WILL LIVE JUST FINE WITHOUT THEM!!!!!!!!! ten times every day not only may they lose weight, they'd also stop tooth decay and the processes that underlie most of the modern diseases of civilization. Dietary Carbohydrates and Dental-Systemic Diseases

[CraigC]

Ted,

Please can I ask you in the future to refrain from posting copious links to external sites. Firstly it is very difficult for us to moderate and check all these external links. Also, posting links on a credible site like Talking Point increases the external sites Google rating and many of these sites are not even dementia related. That is not the purpose of this forum.

3.10 Please keep any links that you post relevant to the discussion. Alzheimer's Society is not responsible for the content of external websites and may remove external links without further notice.

You have strong views on these alternative cures/preventive remedies but please post replies without backing them up with direct links to sites outside of Talking Point.

Thanks
Craig

[TedHutchinson]

Ted,

Please can I ask you in the future to refrain from posting copious links to external sites. Firstly it is very difficult for us to moderate and check all these external links. Also, posting links on a credible site like Talking Point increases the external sites Google rating and many of these sites are not even dementia related. That is not the purpose of this forum.



You have strong views on these alternative cures/preventive remedies but please post replies without backing them up with direct links to sites outside of Talking Point.

Thanks
Craig

I think if people are to understand how they can best deal with this condition they need to understand the way brain nutrition is fundamental to the process and therefore learning about nutrition is relevant to enabling the brain to function to it's optimum. I'm sorry you don't appreciate that.

[jenniferpa]

It's not a question of "appreciating that". It's a question of keeping this forum safe.

It's not always possible to be all things to all people. As moderators, safety (both with respect to internet safety and possible treatments) has to be at the fore front of our minds.

[TedHutchinson]

It's not a question of "appreciating that". It's a question of keeping this forum safe.

It's not always possible to be all things to all people. As moderators, safety (both with respect to internet safety and possible treatments) has to be at the fore front of our minds.

But can't you see that rather than enabling people to thrive you are preventing them getting a better understanding of the issues.
You are locking people into a dependency state.
You are becoming a NANNY where no nanny is needed.
There are sufficient good free anti virus programs available so explaining how people can stay protected gives them the freedom to roam and the freedom to enjoy other points of view.
Keeping people locked into one view of dementia and one failed and failing understanding of dementia prevention is doing no good at all.
If the Alzheimer's Society were promoting effective prevention measures we would be seeing a decline in incidence but you know that isn't the case. Which is why we should be looking at other sensible EVIDENCE BASED ideas and showing where that evidence is key to enabling people to learn how best to improve matters.
Can you not see how you may be doing more harm than good by keeping people ignorant of evidence based ideas and preventing them seeing where these ideas are being discussed.
We have seen how relying on "authority figures" has failed Dementia patients when it comes to Care Homes and Hospital care yet you are setting yourselves up as "authority figures" and yet your own understanding of the issues isn't as up to date or as knowledgeable as it should be and when asked to justify your decision you aren't able or willing to provide the supportive evidence.

[piedwarbler]

It is in the terms and conditions though Ted, and I for one would like to see you keep to the ts & cs and keep posting. (and I mean that in a supportive way ) - because I find your posts thought provoking ( I like to think about the things you say).

[CraigC]

I think if people are to understand how they can best deal with this condition they need to understand the way brain nutrition is fundamental to the process and therefore learning about nutrition is relevant to enabling the brain to function to it's optimum. I'm sorry you don't appreciate that.

No need for that. I'm just asking you to calm down on the external links Ted and to keep posts on topic.

[Owly]

I like being given links, and I appreciate Ted's efforts, especially with the more scientific ones that we're unlikely to find for ourselves. I just wanted to point out that I think the last link he gave me was dubious. My McAfee Anti-Virus should have stopped it but it didn't until I specifically asked it to scan later in the day when it found a trojan. But on that last link, Internet Explorer told me the site wanted to "run a script", I tried to click off the link and I couldn't, and from that moment, my computer was slow and clearly "downloading" something unknown.

Thanks for the free anti-virus links, Ted. Maybe I need those as well.

I also agree with Ted's comments that the medical authorities try to keep us dependent upon "just taking the drugs" whereas our nutrition is clearly a huge influence upon our bodies. Just watch the very interesting Food Hospital programme showing now on UK TV. Amazing results with no medicine, just changes in diet. It is disgraceful that doctors are not taught nutrition properly, just encouraged by 'rewards' from pharmaceutical companies to keep doling out their products.

[arlie]

Hi
I have been using a coconut oil blend for four months now although the only research I have is of the Dr. and her husband. But always looking for others using it to track progress. My mom has LBD 10 yrs now. Before the oil she was too difficult for me to handle, but has been really good for about 3 months now. I hope to hear from others who have been using it and the research they have found. I am sort of new hear and find I get lost looking for the coconut oil posts. I have some posts all over I think, but maybe now I have found the right place.