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  1. #1

    care home records only held for 3 years

    We are appealing for retrospective NHS continuing health care funding and have asked the two homes my mum was in for copies of her records. The second home have agreed to this request but the first home have told us that my mum's records were shredded in January 2009 - she left there in December 2005.

    It seems that homes only have to keep records for 3 years after the resident leaves, which shocks me somewhat.

    So, if anyone thinks they are ever likely to need these records they should ask for them sooner rather than later!
    Brenda
     

  2. #2
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    Thanks for informing us of this. I trust now that the PCT will have to accept your word pre 2005 along with any info the GP and MHT can provide.

    Are you getting the support you need with your Appeal?
    Jan
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BeckyJan View Post
    Thanks for informing us of this. I trust now that the PCT will have to accept your word pre 2005 along with any info the GP and MHT can provide.

    Are you getting the support you need with your Appeal?
    That thought did occur to me also - if we can't use the pre 2005 records then neither can the PCT!

    I am in regular email contact with the lady you very kindly put me in touch with and she is being extremely helpful. I only sent my letter to the PCT late last week though so it is very early days. I will keep you posted.
    Brenda
     

  4. #4
    If this is the case then can the next of kin apply for a copy of the notes when the patient changes/leaves that care home?

    Lemony xx


    When life gives you lemons make lemonade.
     

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlyme View Post
    If this is the case then can the next of kin apply for a copy of the notes when the patient changes/leaves that care home?
    It would obviously be a good idea to ask. However, my mum left that home in an ambulance after breaking her hip and I subsequently complained to CSCI about the home, so relations with the home at the time would not have been great. If we had asked for copies of the records at that time I am sure they would have jumped to the conclusion that we intended to sue them, and they would probably not have been very helpful!
    Brenda
     

  6. #6
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    Noelphobic/B,

    Could this be another 'postcode lottery' in disguise? (Don't know - but am just guessing here.)

    Or could it even be the difference between being a self-funder and/or receiving partial or total local authority funding?

    I would have thought that if a care home resident is funded by the local authority, those care home records would need to be returned to the local authority for longer-term preservation. (Ten years at least, in the same way that other L/A care records are preserved.)

    And the same would apply if the resident had been in receipt of NHS Continuing Healthcare funding, because they would be classified as a medical/health record.

    If a self-funder, the records would surely be the property of the self-funder, so s/he (or his Attorney(s)) should perhaps be given the chance to take control of them before they are destroyed.

    Then again, and I'm just thinking aloud here, if the care home is a privately owned and run care home, surely those records would be returned to the care home provider for retention by the care home provider. But that may depend, of course, on the size of the 'care home provider'. If it's a one-off care home they could just destroy the lot. If it's a bigger care home provider, they would have more to lose from destroying the lot, conveniently.

    If the care home you're dealing with is part of a 'big' care home chain, it might be worth contacting head office and asking questions. (Doesn't mean you'll get answers that will help you ... but you never know!)

    So, perhaps the message you are sending is that everyone who has Power of Attorney, or who is the named NOK, etc. should ask on a regular basis (annually?) for a copy of the file. If only because you never know when it might be required.
     

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JPG1 View Post
    Noelphobic/B,
    Or could it even be the difference between being a self-funder and/or receiving partial or total local authority funding?

    I would have thought that if a care home resident is funded by the local authority, those care home records would need to be returned to the local authority for longer-term preservation. (Ten years at least, in the same way that other L/A care records are preserved.)

    And the same would apply if the resident had been in receipt of NHS Continuing Healthcare funding, because they would be classified as a medical/health record.

    If a self-funder, the records would surely be the property of the self-funder, so s/he (or his Attorney(s)) should perhaps be given the chance to take control of them before they are destroyed.

    Then again, and I'm just thinking aloud here, if the care home is a privately owned and run care home, surely those records would be returned to the care home provider for retention by the care home provider. But that may depend, of course, on the size of the 'care home provider'. If it's a one-off care home they could just destroy the lot. If it's a bigger care home provider, they would have more to lose from destroying the lot, conveniently.

    If the care home you're dealing with is part of a 'big' care home chain, it might be worth contacting head office and asking questions. (Doesn't mean you'll get answers that will help you ... but you never know!)

    So, perhaps the message you are sending is that everyone who has Power of Attorney, or who is the named NOK, etc. should ask on a regular basis (annually?) for a copy of the file. If only because you never know when it might be required.
    the home is privately owned and is one of two owned by the same people, one of whom gave us this information, so there is no head office to approach.

    My mum had a deferred payment arrangement with the LA who now want their pound of flesh!

    I am not yet convinced that the records only have to be held for 3 years and will be investigating further. If they have been shredded in error then they cannot be unshredded of course!
    Brenda
     

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by noelphobic View Post

    My mum had a deferred payment arrangement with the LA who now want their pound of flesh!

    I am not yet convinced that the records only have to be held for 3 years and will be investigating further. If they have been shredded in error then they cannot be unshredded of course!
    Was the LA involved in the original placement of your Mum from the beginning? Or did the LA only come sniffing later?

    The CQC should be able to answer the question of 'how long should care home records be retained',but phone calls to the CQC call centre can be disappointing. Whereas an e-mail or a letter (recorded delivery) can elicit more 'considered resonses'.

    Sadly, with the CQC it depends who just happens to answer the phone when you just happen to call - and we've been told the most perfect tosh by the CQC call centre/phone answering system. And whenever we've had reason to doubt the Quality of the information provided, we've followed it up with an email .... .... and lo and behold, a different 'written' response is most often forthcoming!!!

    No, the shredded records can't be suddenly 'unshredded'. True. So far there's only Fred-the-Shred - but you may well come by the first Fred-the-Unshred!! If you get my meaning.
     

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JPG1 View Post
    Was the LA involved in the original placement of your Mum from the beginning? Or did the LA only come sniffing later?

    The CQC should be able to answer the question of 'how long should care home records be retained',but phone calls to the CQC call centre can be disappointing. Whereas an e-mail or a letter (recorded delivery) can elicit more 'considered resonses'.

    Sadly, with the CQC it depends who just happens to answer the phone when you just happen to call - and we've been told the most perfect tosh by the CQC call centre/phone answering system. And whenever we've had reason to doubt the Quality of the information provided, we've followed it up with an email .... .... and lo and behold, a different 'written' response is most often forthcoming!!!

    No, the shredded records can't be suddenly 'unshredded'. True. So far there's only Fred-the-Shred - but you may well come by the first Fred-the-Unshred!! If you get my meaning.
    She had a social worker before she went into the first home as she had had previous respite stays.

    I have emailed CQC to ask the question. I intend to make a complaint if I find that the records should not have been shredded although I don't know who I would complain to as it appears that you cannot complain to CQC about individual homes - you have to complain to the home itself!

    I wasn't impressed by CSCI but it seems CQC has even less teeth!
    Brenda
     

 

 

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